Chefelf.com Night Life: Forget and move on. - Chefelf.com Night Life

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Forget and move on.

#16 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:20 PM

Ya my grade 12 course went from 1891-1991. COvered everything!
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#17 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:32 PM

We scarcely discussed Vietnam. To not discuss Vietnam here is the equivalent of schools in Germany not discussing the holocaust, which would be considered a crime anywhere in Europe. If schools spent more time talking about how inhumane Vietnam was we wouldnt have the Iraq war, and if schools taught about the outright lies in the government and media about Vietnam people would have an easier time seeing through the bullshit played today.

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#18 User is offline   Grinov Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 12:43 AM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Sep 16 2006, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ya my grade 12 course went from 1891-1991. COvered everything!


I think the Vietnam War is a bit different for Canadians. The Vietnam War is the first war the United States lost (politically, not so much militarily) if Americans forget about the war then they will think they are invincible and then there will be a lot of parents in the United States mourning over dead sons and daughters.
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#19 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:07 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Sep 15 2006, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We scarcely discussed Vietnam. To not discuss Vietnam here is the equivalent of schools in Germany not discussing the holocaust, which would be considered a crime anywhere in Europe.


That's an absolutely ludicrous comparison.

Seriously, I don't know what was up with your school, but the 2nd US history course I took in high school spent about 3 weeks going over "the 60's," Vietnam and then Watergate.

I don't know where the impression is coming from that Vietnam is some kind of taboo subject in the US. It's not. Especially not recognizing that it was a complete failure. Hell, how many hit movies have their been over the years that emphasize this? And those are just freakin' movies...why is a teacher going to feel the need to gloss over it? You pretty much can't teach anything afterwards since it's so strongly shaped almost everything that happened from roughly 1965 onwards. Are there some crappy teachers/schools out there that aren't going to get to it or rush over it? Sure...the educational quality in this country, especially at the public schools, is appalling. But is it happening because of some kind of willful ignorance or intellectual cover-up? Please.
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#20 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:30 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Sep 16 2006, 04:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If schools spent more time talking about how inhumane Vietnam was we wouldnt have the Iraq war...

That's a bit of a demagogue statement in my opinion. Why wouldn't you have the Iraq war? Just because war is inhumane? I think we've had a couple thousand years to recognize that, and frankly, I don't believe Dubya wouldn't have started fighting for the damn oil if teachers had focused more on this particular war at school. Politics are completely separated from human values and emotions.
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#21 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:06 AM

Especially since the man was out of school when Vietnam happened, I do believe. So what would the difference be?
I am writing about Jm in my signature because apparently it's an effective method of ignoring him.
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#22 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 12:04 PM

I know this a massive generalization, but it seems that a good majority of high school and especially college professors at this point are of the "60's generation," or kind of the ex-hippie ilk (and this isn't negative at all, I'm studying to teach history myself and enjoy the professors I've had and have very much, hippies and all). I find it tremendously hard to believe that they would willfully skip or shorten their Vietnam lessons because of some bizarre theory that Americans in general want to "forget" Vietnam.
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#23 User is offline   Grinov Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:16 PM

So how many people learned about the Vietnam War in highschool?
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#24 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE (Cheto @ Sep 16 2006, 11:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So how many people learned about the Vietnam War in highschool?


*Raises hand*
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#25 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 12:11 AM

I already said I did.
I am writing about Jm in my signature because apparently it's an effective method of ignoring him.
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#26 User is offline   Grinov Icon

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 12:17 AM

QUOTE (MyPantsAreOnFire @ Sep 17 2006, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*Raises hand*

QUOTE (Spoon Poetic @ Sep 17 2006, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I already said I did.


Can you tell me what you specifically learned and for how long? I know it might have been a long time ago but please try to remember. wink.gif
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#27 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:43 AM

The first high school US history course I took that covered Vietnam was in 10th grade, and it was a "regular" history course taken by all. I believe 3 classes were spent on it, and most of the emphasis was on the impact the war had at home socially and politically, with some extra "oomph" given to Nixon's excessive bombings in and around Vietnam as the war dragged on. I took an IB US history course my senior year that covered Vietnam over a full week, going into greater detail the issues above and other general issues surrounding the conflict...why it started, why the US pulled out when it did, yadda-yadda-yadda. Neither classes came anywhere near trying to gloss over the subject or not paint it in a negative light.

I highly doubt you'll find a legitimate agenda or effort to ignore or distort the history of the war. I think your friends simply highlight an overall lack of understand and appreciation for their own history that far too many Americans have these days. You likely would have gotten similar answers from then over any major American historical issue older than, say, 20 years ago.

This post has been edited by MyPantsAreOnFire: 17 September 2006 - 11:45 AM

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#28 User is offline   Grinov Icon

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 05:53 AM

QUOTE (MyPantsAreOnFire @ Sep 18 2006, 02:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I highly doubt you'll find a legitimate agenda or effort to ignore or distort the history of the war. I think your friends simply highlight an overall lack of understand and appreciation for their own history that far too many Americans have these days. You likely would have gotten similar answers from then over any major American historical issue older than, say, 20 years ago.


Seems sad, but I guess as long as the average American knows more about the American Civil War then me, everything will be ok.
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#29 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 04:50 PM

QUOTE (Cheto @ Sep 18 2006, 06:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seems sad, but I guess as long as the average American knows more about the American Civil War then me, everything will be ok.


Sadly, I would not take that as a bet.
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#30 User is offline   Ninja Duck Icon

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 08:08 PM

QUOTE (Cheto @ Sep 17 2006, 05:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can you tell me what you specifically learned and for how long? I know it might have been a long time ago but please try to remember. wink.gif


I think if the Vietnam war isn't imphasized, I think it's because teachers are trying to rush at the end of the semester rather than a desire to hush it. My American history teacher in 8th grade had everyone in my class do a presentation on a topic about the Vietnam War, and she even had a Vietnam veteran visit us to speak. I think my topic was Agent Orange. In 10th grade we did the whole spectrum from Spanish colonization to current events, and then in 12th grade i took World history and things got blurry after the Korean War.

I'm a recent high school graduate, and without reading any of the above responses, here's what I remember...

The situation in French Indochina was that Ho Chih Min, backed by China, were hating all up on the southern people, who were poorly armed and outnumbered. The President, I don't remember who, thought it would be a really good idea to hold off the Communist invasion, because it would somehow prove that capitalism was the only way to go.

So the soldiers landed, and sat around and waited, and got attacked by the Viet Kong with their dull machetes and underground tunnels, and waited some more, and the president never ordered an attack because he was only interested in holding on capitalist Vietnam, not reuniting it or any of that bollocks. Since there weren't enough South Vietnamese soldiers, it was mostly Americans on the front, and all they could do was sit back and breathe in the napalm and agent orange.

Then the president died and the new guy pulled the soldiers out and evil prevailed.

Also, domino theory mutually assured destruction intercontinental ballistic missile.

EDIT: Oh yeah, reading MyPantsAreOnFire's post reminded me that the Vietnam War is supposedly the first war to be ended because of popular opinion.

This post has been edited by Ninja Duck: 11 October 2006 - 08:10 PM

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