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Legalizing Street Drugs

#1 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 08:44 PM

Can any one here give me on good reason why we shouldn't?

1) Government can tax it

2) Addicts will not break into houses and hurt people

3) Drug dealers will be put out of business

4) With the inclusion of safe shoot up sites, HIV won't be spread

5) Addicts will be localized around shoot up sites as oppose to bumming money off me in front of my apartment

6) Won't waste police officers times on petty drug dealers and could down size narcotics division

7) Gang warfare will be greatly down sized

8) Addicts will be localized around shoot up sites as oppose to bumming money off me in front of my aparatment

9) see 8 and 5

10) Narcotics docters will not assume every one that comes to them is a hurting addict looking for a score but rather see people in pain in need of heavy stuff
Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
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#2 User is offline   Deepsycher Icon

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:14 PM

Predictably from what I see:

The situation can get worse before it gets better until people start to understand the dangers and when to use the drugs and for what purpose. At the moment people are protected from that and there are those who get pleasure on gaining habbits that are illegal. Didn't the chemicals they put into foods everyday made some people aware because of the effects. Also to consider the drugs that could be more dangerous when prescribed to patients wrongly.

In France isn't it true that there is less violence on the street triggered by alcohol compared to other places with age restrictions?

They blame the younger generation and highered the age but what I saw was that the middle aged generation is equally worse with their actions and not being able to maintain respectful control of themselves.

In another situation it might not work if a nation had a problem such as stress and they naturally turned to drugs and alcohol but the authorities banned the drugs and restricted alcohol without correcting the problems first. That is only trying to hide the problems but couldn't it fuel people's temptations resulting to a vicious circle?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 13 September 2006 - 09:22 PM

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#3 User is offline   Wayne Icon

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:23 PM

And you know how people like glenn beck and michael savage will say that pot is terrible because its a gateway drug? Well the only reason alcohol isn't a gateway drug as well is because its LEGAL. Its common sense...
And we want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the man! And we want to get loaded!
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#4 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 11:55 PM

Yeah, "Gateway drug." Bwaaahhahahahahaha. That is such a bullshit argument.

Like porn is a gateway to rape, and gay marriage is a gateway to bestiality.

Bwaahahahahahahahahaha.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#5 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 01:36 AM

If you don't have mandatory minimum sentences and anti drug laws then, ignoring the groovy things that could come of mass consciousness expansion, there would be a lot of trouble for the fastest growing industry in the US: People keeping other people in cages.

Seriously. The US has a higher percentage of people in prison per population than any country on earth including China. A lot of those prisons are actually privately owned. The government pays corporations like Wackenhut, etc, to imprison people because the government's run out of places to keep them. New prisons are being built a-plenty and the drug laws are a big part of that.

Do you know how many corporate prisons would be fucking empty if these bullshit drug laws were struck down? It would be an economic cataclysm for people employed in keeping other people in cages. Drugs will not be legalized in the US until the problem of the prison industry is addressed.

As Zach De La Rocha put it,

"Aint it funny how the factory doors close?
Round the time that the school doors close?
Round the time that the jaws of the jail cell
Open up to greet you
Like the reaper"

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#6 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 12:48 PM

Drugs will never be legalized in the US ever, and therefore will never by legalized in Canada.

But as I thought, nobody can give me a reason as to why it would be a bad thing. When I first heard about the alcohol prohibition from my history teacher in highschool (wasn't part of the course but our teacher was the shit) I officially became an advocate of legalizing drugs.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 14 September 2006 - 12:48 PM

Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
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#7 User is offline   Wayne Icon

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:24 PM

Well, I hear Canada's drug laws are a lot more lax than the US's.
And we want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the man! And we want to get loaded!
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#8 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 09:08 PM

Canada is a lot better than the US, some cities have made safe shoot up sites and marijuana is a lot more tolerated. Actually the US has severely fucked with Canada because a chap who called himself "The Prince of Pot" was advocating marijuana in Canada and the Canadians wouldn't arrest him, so the US sent fucking pigs across national boundaries and busted the guy.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#9 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 12:19 AM

I don't know what that story is, but the fact is cops can confiscate marijuanna but they will never arrest anyone for having it. So it is illegal but not something you'd even get a ticket for. Grow ops valued under $100000 are essentially misdemeanors, and even up to $1M you're not likely to see jail time. Marijuanna smoking in public is illegal but not uncommon.

As for heroin, there are safe injection sites and needle exchanges in Vancouver, but it is still a controversial subject and current policy could be reversed at any time.

There are no real rules for mushrooms, since they are covered not by the narcotics act but by the food and drug act. So basically it is illegal to distribute them but not at all illegal to eat them. Since you'd have to be an idiot to actually get caught selling anything, mushrooms are essentially legal.

Everything else, from Ecstacy to Meth to Cocaine is as illegal as it ever was, but the sentences are milder than they are in the US.

As for a general answer, Jordan, I naturally agree. I don't think that removing drug prohibition would make addicts of an entire nation any more than removing alcohol prohibition made us all drunks. Ignoring possible benefits to the economy, since these should not be a part of any discussion of civil liberties, I can't think of any genuine reason to keep illegal the sale and use of recreational drugs.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#10 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:12 AM

http://www.cbsnews.c...in1363340.shtml

You Canadians on the board might find this especially interesting.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#11 User is offline   David-kyo Icon

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 02:24 PM

This is an issue I've been very keen on for years, as I hate hypocrisy more than anything else. I don't think legalizing ALL the drugs at once would be a very good idea, since that might lead to not only economical but also social cataclysm. However, I do think that alcohol and tobacco are a lot more harmful than, say, marijuana. It's just that alcohol and tobacco is something people are used to, and the uneducated fucks who, however, love to rant, put down drugs in the meantime. The government is afraid to legalize drugs, because then they'd be the "bunch of satanist pot-promoting cocksuckers", so they keep it illegal, so people get more drug prevention lectures, so more ranting uneducated fucks will run rampant. Vicious cycle. My favourite is when they air an anti-drug advertisement which is followed by whiskey commercials.
"It's okay to drink your drug *glug glug*, we meant those other, UNTAXED drugs."

Here's a little scene from Bill Hicks to illustrate my point:

"Pot's a better drug than alcohol, FACT, I'll prove it to you. Ever been to a ball game or rock concert where some people were really violent, aggressive, obnoxious, are they drunk, or are they smoking pot? Drunk would be the only correct answer. I've never seen people on pot get into a fight, because it's fucking impossible."
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#12 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 02:53 PM

That article is depressing, JM. And I'm not talking about Emery's potential demise either.

I never understood why conservatives are so strict on drugs. Harper, our Prime Minister, is trying to get Pot criminalized again. He made an annoucement before a roaring crowd of police officers about how he wants to make Pot offenses real crimes.

Even if Canada wants to legalize, the states will never have it. I could even see massive trade embargos set on our country if we did decriminalize street drugs.

I grew up in a small town. Cocaine is popular there. From ages 20-50, people are blowing hard at parties. It's like Alcohol and cigarettes. During the day though these people lead normal lives. Sure, one day they may wake up with a collapsed nose, but that's their problem.

Making the drug available to them to buy at a Pharmacy will in no way change their lives. The only difference is that the guy they buy it off of will be out of business and so will his hand gun.

Conservatives in Canada, like my father, are even for legalizing. My mother lives in chronic pain and there is not cure for her alignments. She's been on narcotics for over 10 years now. You can't give her the same one over and over or else she will OD since immunity grows to them. So what you need to do is loop people like her on different types of Narcotics. She doesn't get high off them like you and I would, it relieves her pain though.

Most docters will not deal with my mom because they are afraid of giving her those drugs. The only doctor we found works at a narcotics centre which primarily deals with junkies. Even after 10 years of taking the crap, they still treat her as a heroine junkie off of the street. They harass her constantly and are suspicioius of her selling the meds . She is a 59 year old women with diagonsed bone disease but because she needs narcotics to function, she must be a junkie selling the shit and abusing it.

One time she lost a vial of her meds and the doctor would not give her a new one because he though she sold it or took it all. After 2 days she ended up in ER at Saint Pauls hospital were they ended up giving her the narcotics and finally the doctor wrote her a new percription.

Canada is still pretty strict too.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 15 September 2006 - 03:02 PM

Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
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#13 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:44 PM

Well like I said, the main reason it won't be outlawed are that prisons are good for the government. I mean look at the benefits:

Every new prison means new jobs and new contracts to build the prison.
Every new prison filled takes "unsavory" elements off the street and lowers unemployment.
Every person arrested is a checkmark on a piece of paper, so when a politician is questioned they can say how hard on crime they are, even if they've busted like 3 violent offenders and all the rest are just guys who wanted to toke up.
Also, prison companies contribute money to campaigns. If they stop having reason to build new prisons and get billions in government money, the campaign money stops.

So there you have it, outlawing drugs is profitable.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#14 User is offline   Grinov Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 02:29 AM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Sep 14 2006, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2) Addicts will not break into houses and hurt people


Unless they need money for the drugs.

QUOTE (Jordan @ Sep 14 2006, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
3) Drug dealers will be put out of business


If you count Government officials as not being drug dealers.

Other then these two you put up a good argument, let me just add:

What drugs would be legal and illegal? Most illegal drugs are practically lethal even at a small doze which is why they are illegal in the first place. Also there are drugs that make you violent like Cocaine, Speed and Ice; would we need to keep these illegal?

This post has been edited by Cheto: 16 September 2006 - 02:31 AM

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#15 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:19 AM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Sep 14 2006, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Drugs will never be legalized in the US ever, and therefore will never by legalized in Canada.

Damn, that's the complete and utter explaination I've ever heard in my life. Damn, we must aswell close this topic because Jordan has clearly thought this completely through and explained every single possible point that you could ever have.

dry.gif

QUOTE (Cheto @ Sep 16 2006, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What drugs would be legal and illegal? Most illegal drugs are practically lethal even at a small doze which is why they are illegal in the first place.

Incorrect, the reason why most of those drugs are dangerous is because drug dealers add shit to them to thin them out with, shit like rat poison and sawdust (sometimes quite literally shit). If it was government licenced with strict guideless on what you can add to the drug, and mixtures, then it would be safe.

P.S. I'm scared, I'm actually on the same side of an argument as Jordan. Something I'm sure Israel would be scared about too.

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 16 September 2006 - 07:26 AM

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