[Vesuvius]

Vader. It showed us that Luke was wrong and that his father never deserved redemption. Anaking slaughtered children and nearly killed his pregnant wife. That's not a "tragic hero", that's just an a**hole.

So, I'm going with Darth Vader, followed closely by everyone else in the PT.

Ha ha haaa haaa!
Awesome!

[TruJade]

Yeah.... but in Vader's defence
he was twisted and used by Palpatine and the Darkside.
Plus Luke never knew about the dead younglings
or the whole domestic abuse thing.
sooo yeah

On a more serious note: Anakin was a fool.
I can honestly say that i've never been more mad
at male character, that was apart of such a beloved film.
Everything he did pissed me off to no end
and his mechanical hand ....
WORST HAND EVER.

Though it was much better in ROTS
it still doesn't redeem him

[Vesuvius]

Blah! I can't defend Anakin. Would you even say that he was tricked by the Emporer? He seemed to just fall into place to make the movie happen. We should have seen some trickery going on in EP II and we should not have had a movie wasted on Anakin as a child. He did nothing!

You can show a lot of content in three movies. The OT is proof of this. We got a skipped story in EPI, we got some story in EP II, and then everything wraps up in EP III, just so we can say "Oh, so now it goes to EP IV. How convenient!" No! None of it was convenient.

EP I: Look, here's where Anakin came from. He feels the force. Feel sorry for him.
EP II: Look, Anakin is grown up, despite training with Jedi, he's a real d*ck. All the time!
EP III: Look, Anakin is kinda cool (finally), but he's too easily manipulated. Feel sorry for him again.

I can feel sorry for someone who is really trying to control himself and his/her passions and base instincts and make things better for all parties. But I won't feel sorry for anyone that doesn't try to control anything about themselves at all and yet wants everything to be perfect.

It's like Deepsycher once said, "Arguing with an empty box of chocolates after you ate them all!"

[Despondent]

Blah! I can't defend Anakin.

It's like Deepsycher once said, "Arguing with an empty box of chocolates after you ate them all!"

[TruJade]

Trust me there is no reason to defend Anakin.
Or feel any empathy towards his plight.
On good days i feel he was a tortured soul,
but then my sanity kicks in.
The idea of him was quite alluring
But the reality is harsh and ugly.

I like to separate Anakin from Vader
Anakin was weak and unstable.
Manipulating a child is harder than the trickery
(if you can call it that)
Palpatine used to get that
fool of a Skywalker.

Vader was the forces
compensation for the terrible mistake it made with Anakin.
A stronger more in your face version.
Sure he was a little corrupt,
with a touch of tyranny
but he kept the Empire running.

And hey, who doesn't love a deathbed confession
of horrible crimes and an undying love for the children
you never knew you had and just tried to kill?

Beautiful!

[Vesuvius]

In EP III, I actually felt sorry for Obi-wan because everthing was falling apart around him. Though his whole "I failed you Anakin" speach was stupid when he was fighting him. Obi-wan did what he thought was right, I just think he was too relaxed for such an unstable brat.

I didn't feel sorry for Yoda because he just didn't seem to care about what was going on around him, despite the numerous deaths of his comrades. What a dork! Oh, but he should rejoice for those that are dead... please.... I think I would have exploded with laughter in the theater if that little green turd laughed at all of his dead Jedi friends.

Yoda: HAA HAA HAA HAAAAA!!! Dead you are, yes. One with the Force, you will be! HAAA HAAAAA!

And he's jumping around and cutting random objects with his lightsaber... what a fool.

I could sympathise with Mace Windu as a character because he didn't want to see the Republic fall under the Sith's control. As for Sam Jackson, he was... a little ...stiff, or something.

[TruJade]

Ok i argee with Sam J's stiff acting
but everyone was preety bad in the movies
Even Yoda and they had

complete control over all of his movements!
But yeah that foolishness of rejoicing
for the dead was quite ridiculous.

Even Anakin didn't buy it
and we know he's pretty stupid.
As for Obi-wan he's had it rough from day one.

He's Master was a radical and he was saddled with a self-destructive know-it- all
padawan that no one of jedi importance wanted to become a jedi.
Then he had to watch everything fall apart.

If GL was, not even a good writer, but just competent
He easliy could have worked it
so that we could thoroughly realize the

defeat of the jedi and the dissolve of
a supposedly strong brother-like relatoinship.
But no, for the most part i feel like Anakin is a messed up kid

and Obi-wan being older and wiser,
just ignored most of the chaotic signs
his 'brother' displayed

[Toru-chan]

Darth Vader, of course. He turned my tall, dark, homicidal hero into a whiny little pussy.

Yes, Darth is a winner:

"Awww geez, Obiwon. So what if I ran up my cellular phone bill? I have to call my friends, and the Jedi council pay the bill so what's the big deal. Get off my back. Besides there's a really cool video I want to post on YouTube of you getting your butt kicked, and then I'm going to see how many more MySpace friends I made today."

But I reckon Yoda runs a very close second. He was a wise, grizzled little master of the force in SW5-6. Suddenly in SW1-3 he's an arrogant, pompous little ass. In AOTC we had that ridiculous light sabre fight everyone wet themselves laughing at. Then in ROTS he's dumb in the extreme. Then on top of fighting the Emperor and losing (only because he ran away) he goes into hiding while the Empire takes over the galaxy. A hero would stay and fight. Or go away, regroup, and come back at fight. A hero wouldn't go into hiding. What a miserable little coward.

"The Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, before the dark times, before the empire". A few years ago in Sydney a police officer driving past Hyde Park saw some other police officers in a gun battle with organized crime. Instead of radioing for help and getting out of the car and defend his colleagues, he turned tail and drove to police HQ "for reinforcements". They sacked his sorry ass for cowardice. At least one or both of the cops in the park at the time died of gunshot wound. I have no trouble imagining this being made into a movie with Yoda in the starring roll: Small, green coward.

It doesn't matter how sympathetically Lucas frames him, or how the CGI morons on the director's commentary babble on about what skin shaders they used. Yoda is a coward. A small, green coward. Add to that the nonsensical "feel happy for dead people" speech: completely unlikable.

Damn that felt good!

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 18 April 2007 - 12:02 AM

[jerfus17]

Vader is pretty hard to top, but for me it was Yoda. I hate how he took the benevolent, wise sage we know from Empire and turned him into this hypocritical, CG bouncy-ball. Yoda always said "use the force only for defense, never attack" and "wars not make one great". Yet in Ep2 and 3 he's flying around lopping people's heads off and throwing his little green lightsaber through people's chests without a second thought. Speaking of his lightsaber, that's another aspect that bothers me. Yoda is by far the most powerful Jedi of the story, why would he ever need to use a lightsaber? Yoda was a teacher and a guide, not a warrior. I can't stand seeing this iconic figure of Star Wars reduced to a computer-gernerated glob of back-flipping crap just so Lucas can sell more toys to little kids.

[TruJade]

too true ......
except one could argue the only reason he said

"use the force only for defense, never attack"
and
"wars not make one great".

is because he had lived through
the war and seen the damage

wasteland it left behind
i'm just saying ......

[jerfus17]

Good point.
However, remember that Lucas and Kasdan didn't come up with the Yoda character until Empire. At that time they thought Ben was going to teach Luke, but since they had killed him off at the end of A New Hope they had to invent someone new as the trainer. Lucas talks all about it in the documentary From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga. (which is also a great source to see what a hypocrite Lucas is).
Still, I guess you could argue that even though they didn't concieve of Yoda until Empire, they could have imagined him as some lightsaber swinging, ping-pong ball - but I still don't think those super-hero attributes fit the original character we all remember from the days of old, and good Star Wars films long passed.

[TruJade]

pssssh
well i've got no good answers for you
Lucas is an idiot whoe ruins everything
good or potentailly good about star wars
There thats what you want isn't !!!!!!
thought its alright i'll defend him some time this
year probably when the animated series comes out

any whoooo
If they originally wanted Obi to train
Luke then why did they kill him
No sense this is making.
I remember hearing rumours
that Yoda would finally use his lightsaber
Me: cool he'll be cuting fruit for the younglings

Instead he fights Dooku.... ok
as i sat in the theatre i got all excited
ya Yodas gonna kick ass since
he IS the most powerful Jedi
what began cool ened very akward
like Yoda (dare i say it) couldn't perform

Hmmm
it only gets further ridiculous

[jerfus17]

Me: cool he'll be cuting fruit for the younglings

Dude ... you said "younglings". Don't ever say that word, it makes peoples eyes and ears bleed whenever they see or hear it. Bad word, very bad word. Lucas should be executed for ever coming up with "younglings".

[TruJade]

Hmmm .......then you might
want to avoid the
'Laws of Star wars' board
but i can't help it

People look at me weird
when i say padawan
even weirder when i
say padawan learner

though it's not without
moments of hilarity
Someone at work asked me
whether 'padawan' dies.

Thats the type of foolishness
im sure Lucas enjoys on his
yearly trip to the Oscars
as a seat warmer

HAHAHA! I've done it!
I dare you to find
a post with the word padawan
used this much in such a small space

[Infernus]

While I enjoyed Yoda greatly in the OT, I generally felt he was given too much screen time in the prequels, especially in regards to him fighting sith. The fight scenes almost de-mystified this character I had loved as a child. And having him share scren time with Palpatine was overdoing it.

This post has been edited by Infernus: 24 May 2007 - 03:48 PM