Chefelf.com Night Life: Is ROTJ better than 'The Phantom Menace'? - Chefelf.com Night Life

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Is ROTJ better than 'The Phantom Menace'? The age-old question. (Part One of Three)

Poll: Is ROTJ better than 'The Phantom Menace'?

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#31 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 10:28 PM

It ain't the empire strikes back. But I hear where you're coming from.
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#32 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 02:13 AM

QUOTE
how could u possible believe ROTJ is BAD!!!! really! i find that so hard to believe.


1. "From a certain point of view" - the BIGGEST copout of the entire OT, delivered by a very embarrassed Alec Guinness.

2. Ewoks - "A battle between a troop of waddling teddy bears and the WORST soldiers in the universe," in the pointed words of our own Chefelf.

3. Sebastian Shaw's face where Dave Prowse's SHOULD have been.

4. Jabba - a big slug is NOT all that scary. That slimy bastard could have been held off by someone with a large salt shaker.

5. An ominous villain turns into a cackling idiot - Palpatine.

6. A rehash of an old weapon that was blown up in ANH. What happened to the freshness and originality of ANH and ESB?

*******************************************

I still maintain that RotJ sucks, and no amount of shaming is going to change my mind. HOWEVER, even though RotJ sucks, at least to me, it is a little puff, as compared to the hurricane suck power of the PT.

Here are some of the great things about RotJ:

1. No Gungans - Jar Jar, thankfully, was years in the future

2. The dialogue and acting are even worse in the PT

3. The characters of RotJ are not all a bunch of loathesome putzes.

4. The final battle scene is still the best in ALL of the SW movies, and has never been beaten.

5. No overwrought CGI bullshit - GL was still of the opinion that effects were there to help forward the story, not take over the screen to the exclusion of EVERYTHING else.

6. Darth Vader was an interesting character, not a whiny psycho.

*******************************

I have read the novelization to RotJ, and it did not help that much. But it was MUCH better than the PT.
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#33 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 04:23 AM

I could explain all the things I dislike about RotJ, but I'll just save time by linking to the 50 Reasons Why 'Jedi' Sucks. I agree with most (though not all) of them; on the other hand, the film does have some great moments and I fully agree that it's inestimably better than any of the Prequels.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#34 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 07:00 PM

Just not sure how anyone could think ROTS and AOTC are better than New Hope or Empire...
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#35 User is offline   TruJade Icon

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 08:23 PM

miladyblue,
After some time i have come to about the same conclusion.... that not everyone wil like ROTJ. though i may never no why, i have to respect their opinon and even agree with some of the really bad parts of the movie. And yes the book ROTJ is very good but i find that to be tru e of alot of the STAR WARS books.
By the way i found this freakin' HILARIOUS
QUOTE
Jabba - a big slug is NOT all that scary. That slimy bastard could have been held off by someone with a large salt shaker.


Duct tape is like the force....

There's a lightside, a darkside

and it holds everything together


There are too many people in the world...We need another plague -Dwight K. Shrute [The Office]
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#36 User is offline   mireaux7 Icon

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 08:39 PM

QUOTE (TruJade @ Sep 29 2006, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
miladyblue,
After some time i have come to about the same conclusion.... that not everyone wil like ROTJ. though i may never no why, i have to respect their opinon and even agree with some of the really bad parts of the movie. And yes the book ROTJ is very good but i find that to be tru e of alot of the STAR WARS books.
By the way i found this freakin' HILARIOUS


Personally, I would like to see Lucas acquire the necessary studio rights, and then insert footage from 1994's "Dumb and Dumber" into ROTJ. The scene I am referring to takes place in the diner, when Lloyd suggests to Harry to "throw some salt over your right shoulder". Harry would then toss an oversized, and open salt shaker back which would then cut over to footage of Jabba being heavily seasoned with the airborne sodium and shrilling in pain and agony, all the while Leia begins to break free of her restaint.

Hmmm...maybe with the right computer software,.some technical wizard out there could get to work on such footage? hee hee
laugh.gif

4. Jabba - a big slug is NOT all that scary. That slimy bastard could have been held off by someone with a large salt shaker.

I guess my previous post would have made more sense, If I copied and pasted the right quote...(Homer Simpson) DOH! blink.gif
QUOTE (njamilla @ Feb 23 2008, 08:16 AM)
Shit, Fuck, Piss: I had to say that because I can on this website. (Thanks Chef!)

QUOTE (chefelf @ Feb 23 2008, 10:30 AM)
That's what I'm here for.
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#37 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 02:01 AM

TruJade, my apologies if I came off sounding like I was attacking you. It was NOT my intent. That is the problem of written communications, because the nuances of vocal inflection and facial exp​ression are absent. Smilies are not that great a substitute.

As for the slug comments, I live in Seattle, and it seems the slug is our official state animal, because the slimy bastards are EVERYWHERE. So when I saw Jabba up on screen, all I could think of yelling at the screen was, "Luke, forget the Jedi Mind Trick, you just need some salt!"
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#38 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE (miladyblue @ Sep 29 2006, 02:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
4. Jabba - a big slug is NOT all that scary. That slimy bastard could have been held off by someone with a large salt shaker.

I liked that one a bit. smile.gif
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#39 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 03:10 PM

ROTJ is a vastly superior film to the Phantom Menace. Nuff said.
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#40 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 06:54 PM

ultimatley, ROTJ is like a hamburger with some rather bitter pickles in it.

some are very distracted by the pickles but will try to enjoy the hamger,
some like JYAMG will remove the offending pickles, then there are others like me who just enjoy the damn burger pickles an all and try to ignore the fact that the pickles are shorter, hairier, and far too cutsy for my liking but fuck it im going to enjoy it anyway because this meat is some prime grade a meat full of beef, closure, and an awsome lighsabre fight between father and son.
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#41 User is offline   TruJade Icon

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 04:01 PM

miladyblue have no worries there was no need to apologize for stating your opinon.
i've been to Seattle and i agree about the slugs,you might need to get the government involved. Perhaps your congress representitive could use that as a platform in the next election.

And i must say a very big THANK YOU LORD AQUAMAN it is clear you understand the magic that is ROTJ.

Duct tape is like the force....

There's a lightside, a darkside

and it holds everything together


There are too many people in the world...We need another plague -Dwight K. Shrute [The Office]
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#42 User is offline   Storm Icon

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 12:29 PM

I still have yet to understand what the big deal is with the use of CGI. I thought the CGI in ROTS was rather impressive.

Here's a reason why George Lucas makes money on a movie as where the remainder of you would spend your entire film's budget in a day. Let's take the scene from ROTS where Anakin is leading the clone troopers into the Jedi Temple. Most likely everything in that scene was CGI, aside from Anakin. I had no problem with it.

Now, if the fans at Chef Elf were to do that scene, they would hire 1000 unknown actors to play the clone troopers. Then they would purchase 1000 clone trooper suits. Then they would reshoot that scence 1000 times in order to make sure all the troops were walking in unison. Oh, and not to mention they would also have to find some place in the world that resembles the Jedi Temple or build it from scratch. Congratulations fans at Chef Elf, your company has become bankrupt in not even one day. On the bright side, perhaps you would get featured on a television show for "World's Worst Filmakers".

The year is 2006. I think it's time some of you accepted there is better technology out there.
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#43 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (Storm @ Oct 7 2006, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still have yet to understand what the big deal is with the use of CGI. I thought the CGI in ROTS was rather impressive.

Here's a reason why George Lucas makes money on a movie as where the remainder of you would spend your entire film's budget in a day. Let's take the scene from ROTS where Anakin is leading the clone troopers into the Jedi Temple. Most likely everything in that scene was CGI, aside from Anakin. I had no problem with it.

Now, if the fans at Chef Elf were to do that scene, they would hire 1000 unknown actors to play the clone troopers. Then they would purchase 1000 clone trooper suits. Then they would reshoot that scence 1000 times in order to make sure all the troops were walking in unison. Oh, and not to mention they would also have to find some place in the world that resembles the Jedi Temple or build it from scratch. Congratulations fans at Chef Elf, your company has become bankrupt in not even one day. On the bright side, perhaps you would get featured on a television show for "World's Worst Filmakers".

The year is 2006. I think it's time some of you accepted there is better technology out there.


Is it better? The OT gave you more of a sense it was "real" with so much of it having to actually be built and put in front of the camera. Sure, a lot of it looked like crap, but the overwhelming majority of it worked. It simply "feels" more real when watching it. I have no problem when CGI is used well and only when needed, but scenes like the exact one you listed DON'T need it given the budget these films had or could have had. Quite simply, it looks fake when all of the troopers or digitally created. I never get the sense I'm watching more than a video game. CGI should be used to ehance a scene or a film...not dominate it.
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#44 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 01:09 PM

Storm, the problem isn't using CGI, it's abusing it. Sure, CGI makes impressive scenes and can emulate entire settings with just a few clicks here and there, but Lucas clearly overdoses on CGI through out the PT. I strongly feel that most of the acting was rather shallow from the cast of the PT because the actors had nothing to look at to make them want to be there! Everyone is looking at blue and green screens all the time, and that's the same acting you're gonna get. You can't really pull off the impression that you live in the galaxies largest city when you're not even looking out of a skyscraper window to see the vastness of it all.... No, everyone is looking at a blank wall and pretending to look out onto it and it just doesn't work.

How easy is it to pretend you're in a jungle with lush greenery and animals when you're only confined to a bathroom in some apartment?!?! You can't! An actor needs some sort of visual stimuli to let them know that they are supposed to be in this certain environment so act like it!

Why did filming in Tunnisia work better for scenes related to Tattoine? Because they were in the frikin' dessert! Why do scenes look, feel, and sound stale for Corruscant? Because all the actors aren't using their imaginations to see this stuff. Only Lucas sees this and therefore he thinks everything is fine.

Listen to Natalie Portman on the EP II documentary. She didn't even know that she was supposed to be running on a conveyor belt in a droid assembly factory! She had no idea, until after she saw the movie and she was stunned at what it turned out to be. If she did see some sort of props or even heard some sound effects of what was going on, she'd look a hell of a lot more surprised at the sight of all that was going on around her.
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#45 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 03:13 PM

Excellent points. It doesn't surprise me that Lucas doesn't think or care about how his actors will perform given his negative statements about actors in general over the years. I honestly don't know why he doesn't get into animation...why bother with ANY live action characters if you're not even going to give them anything to act with/against?

To use the Stormtooper example again, I completely understand only having a few dozen or so actors in costumes and the rest put in with CGI...hell, in the OT they did that and just filled the rest in matte painting-style. LOTR used it to great effect. But making ALL of them CGI is very jarring and never seems real. The CGI isn't bad...it's just not realistic-looking enough to pull off THAT much CGI and still have a few human actors running around. That makes the CGI a distraction and not a tool.
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