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Lucas Hustles his fans into buying the movies one more time?

#1 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:45 PM

Okay, the fanboys are probably already wetting themselves over this one, but I thought I'd share it since nobody else seems to have yet:

http://www.thedigita...ill.html#082406

QUOTE
8/24/06

....

Also today... a follow-up on something we've been telling you to expect for quite while now. 2007, as you may well be aware, is the 30th anniversary of the original Star Wars' debut in theaters. You'd have to be stupid not to know that Lucasfilm is going to have big DVD release plans with which to celebrate the anniversary, and we've been telling you that was the case for many months now. Indeed, during our last visit to the Ranch for the DVD release of Episode III, producer Rick McCallum confirmed that a box set of all six films was going to happen eventually, and animation director Rob Coleman even let it slip that the puppet Yoda from Episode I had already been replaced with a new CG Yoda to match Episodes II & III for the "future" release. T-Bone over at Star Wars Universe recently speculated about this box set, and we've been quietly checking in with our industry sources on it as well. Well, we've confirmed it: There IS a big, ultimate, 6-film Star Wars anniversary DVD box set planned for 2007. There will be more changes to the films, and there will be LOTS of new, never-before-seen special features - all the good stuff that was held back by Lucasfilm from the original Trilogy DVD release a few years ago. Think deleted scenes and more. We don't know if good, genuinely-REMASTERED versions of the original theatrical editions of the films will be included or not (though how you could call the set "ultimate" without them, we don't know). We don't expect high-definition versions yet, as those formats are just too new. We don't have ANY other details for you yet, so please don't ask. But as you consider whether or not to purchase the "limited edition" DVDs due on 9/12... we thought you should know that more IS absolutely on the way next year. 'Nuff said for now.

As always, please keep in mind that titles discussed here are tentative and are subject to change until officially announced by the studios.

Stay tuned...



T-Bone (starwarz.com) said:

QUOTE
Rumors About The 30th Anniversary DVD Set
By T-bone
Published: August 13, 2006
Print Email Discuss


May 25th, 2007, as some of you may well know, will bring about the 30th anniversary of the original release of Star Wars in theaters. You don't really think that the Lucasfilm marketing machine would let such a momentous occasion go without trying to sell you anything and everything possible with a Star Wars logo on it, do you? Of course not. So here are a few rumors about what you might see next year, according to a source that unfortunately wishes to remain anonymous but I trust completely. I'm sure that big Celebration IV will tie into this all as well.

I know that anonymous sources tend to lead people to thinking the story is made up but you'll have to just trust me or wait and see. Things can change I'm sure but things are in motion now that should come to fruition next year. If I label something a rumor, it is just that - a rumor. Please take it as such. Moving on...

What I'm hearing sounds like it's not going to be a simple "Here is the new set" blitz. It's going to, once again, incorporate the soundtracks, the convention and yes, more tinkering to the DVDs. I'll repeat that - MORE tinkering to the FILMS. Yes, more changes to the Star Wars films. By now, this shouldn't exactly be "news" to anyone. I think fans almost expect that with every release of every Lucasfilm DVD from here on in (and maybe that was the idea), there are probably going to be some kind of changes, be it a transition (dissolve to wipe, perhaps) or a completely new scene.

Let’s start with the soundtracks. The complete scores are allegedly going to be released in one big boxed set but my source tells me that the audio quality will not be as good as the current releases for some reason. Now I’m not a stickler with CDs and I don’t go nuts with audio quality. If it sounds good on my iPod, I’m fine with it. If it sounds good on the computer or whatever, great. I can notice big changes but when it comes down to it, I won’t be ticked off if it’s a little off in quality, though I’d expect newer releases to sound better than the previous ones.

That said, the only thing my source told me about the soundtracks is that they “…will not sound as good as the current discs. They will sound like every other John Williams 'muffled' release.” I’m not 100% sure what that means, exactly but I’m sure some of you soundtrack lovers and John Williams fanatics out there will know what he’s talking about. The status quo probably won’t take issue but if you already have them, you might not need to buy them again.

This time, I’m not falling prey to the soundtrack trap like I did with the 2004 version. They ensnared me into buying the silver boxed set of soundtracks because inside were supposed to be some exclusive screensavers and I thought to myself, “Hey, that’s good enough to make me buy these again, even though I already have them. I’m getting something else I don’t have. Great.” So I took the CDs and installed the screensavers. I tried out the one for EMPIRE and up came the wonderful logo followed by…a bunch of expanded universe artwork that had NOTHING to do with the film. Thinking it was a quirk, I tried the other two screensavers and it was the same thing. Bring up the FILM logo and then show images that have NOTHING to do with the film. Who’s the genius that devised that plan? I sure hope they’re not working there anymore. I almost threw the CDs out the window.

So if you have the soundtracks, you might want to think about whether or not you really need this new set of music. Chances are, you have it all, but if you don’t have all of the soundtracks this might be a good set to invest in. We’ll have to see what the details are but this time I’ll be very skeptical of the bonus features, if any.

Now, on to the films. From what I understand, George Lucas is going back once again to make even more changes to the Star Wars films. What those changes are and what films in particular they are going to show up in, I don’t know yet. As soon as my rumor mill starts to flow on those, I will let you know. All I know is that my source tells me that it’s going to happen for this new box to be released next year.

Frankly, I find it funny that Lucas will spend more money on these films but won’t give the unaltered versions a correct anamorphic transfer. Perhaps he will for this new set. We’ll have to wait until the details start to come out. Something in my gut is telling me the unaltered versions will not show up, but that’s my gut, not a rumor. It could happen.

All I know is you should probably start saving up your money now if you plan on buying this thing because it’ll probably be a monster and will probably come in a few different variations. Technically, it could run at around $150 or in that ballpark when you consider it’s 2 discs per film, at least, and then there’s bound to be at least one bonus disc, if not two. Plus they’ll probably throw in some garbage like game demos or little coins or pewter figures or whatever they dream up that they think will make the set more appealing to fans because let’s face it, outside of the normal DVD enthusiasts, the only other people buying this mega-set are going to be fans of the films. Most other people already have them or will be buying them individually this year.

Ok, so there’s one more little rumor I need to throw into the mix here that’s somewhat related but came bundled with the info I was given, so let’s get it out there and see if it sticks. The Star Wars Anniversary Set that’s coming next year is going to be the big item for 2007, but what about 2008? Well, Lucasfilm is allegedly working on another Indiana Jones boxed set for the 2008 Holiday season, so have no fear those of you who like to spend money.

Think about the timing though. The new Indiana Jones film seems to have finally been given the go ahead and if all goes well, we could see it in theaters in either late 2007 or early 2008. That gives the marketing machine plenty of time to promote a new Indy set for 4th quarter, 2008 but with the NEW film included. Again, that’s just my gut there. The only info I was given was that there’s another Indy box being prepped for 2008. I’m reading into the rumor.

See, I have to say this stuff because the last time I posted some rumors about the digital arm of ILM possibly moving to India or somewhere out of California, some Lucasfilm employees got all pissy with me and decided to trash me publicly without even contacting me first to ask about the article. There was talk about how the fan sites need to keep themselves in check and sometimes need to be taken down a notch, etc. That sort of negativity isn't going to do anyone any good. I’ve been posting rumors for 10 years now so this should be nothing new to them. In fact, this source tells me that the main reason they haven’t moved ILM yet is because of the work they’re doing for the Anniversary set. I never said they were moving tomorrow so we’ll see if this all pans out one day. If not, no big deal, right? I get the rumors, I report them – that’s it. If they’re wrong, I’m the one that has to worry about it and believe me, I don’t.

So anyhow – get your wallets ready folks. It looks like 2007 is going to be full of surprises! As soon as I hear more on these rumors, confirming or denying, I will let you know. Until then, take them as you will.


Hide Comments (3)

T-bone - August 15, 2006
I can't imagine they'd be huge changes, but we can all hope for a reversal of Greedo shooting first! Wishful thinking, I say but I would make a wager that the EP1 Yoda will be replaced - and I think it already was for testing purposes, from what I remember.


jayce78 - August 14, 2006
told ya!


Gnome - August 14, 2006
I can't see what more changes to the DVD's there would need to be. Fix a few things that got messed up with the last release (green saber, sound mix) but nothing in the originals unless it's reincorporation of deleted scenes. In The PT, all I can see is making Ep. I Yoda digital. This set will have to pretty amazing to make me but these movies for the 4th time.

On to Indy....I knew this would happen. I love having all of my movies from the same franchise in matching boxes and such, to be nice and neat. There's no way though that I'm going to buy all 3 movies again. I can only hope that they release the 4th movie in the same packaging that the Indy films are in now so I can just slip it in flawlessly. But I think we all know that chances of that happening.


http://www.starwarz....2_articleid=846





Personally, I will NOT buy a six movie boxed set just to get a new cardboard box or even new covers. I won't buy it just to get CG Yoda in Episode I (or even to get Episode I mastered properly so it's not overly sharpened and edge-enhanced as the 2001 release was).

Nor do I wish to rebuy the 2004 Editions again (I was already planning to rebuy them just to get the "Original Theatrical" Trilogy). Nor do I wish to rebuy Episode II or III.

When I heard this, I immediately got this picture in my mind of a NEW Episode I edition, and a NEW bonus disc for the Classic Trilogy, and the rest of the stuff being previously released discs (that is, Episode II and III as they appeared in 2002 and 2005, and the Classic Trilogy as it appears in the 2006 "limited edition" set).

If I had never bought these movies yet, I would probably be screaming for this right now, but as of now, it doesn't look like it'd be worth my time. And even if Lucas decides to tweak the Classic Trilogy one more time, I can only imagine lame changes, so I would not care to buy that either (I think I would rent it once if my curiosity got the best of me, rather than buying it on the off chance that it's an improvement over previous Special Editions).

When Lucas says "Limited Edition" these days, he is basically talking about the packaging, not the content on the actual discs, it seems. And "bonus features" amount to unrelated fluff, not actual content of the film itself (remember his packing LucasArts video game advertisments and Episode III teasers onto the classic trilogy set instead of using that space for deleted scenes or classic behind the scenes docs/interviews).

And before anyone tells me I'm a stick in the mud and going to miss out on the "chance of a lifetime" get real....

The "Bonus Disc" of the four disc 2004 set can be bought seperately from the main set. The "Limited Edition" 2005 set was identical to the 2004 set, except in a new box minus that bonus disc (which was 1/3rd non-Classic Star Wars content anyway). I am willing to bet that any "New" discs that are available in this rumored 2007 set will eventually be available seperately.

If this rumor is true, I would think that Lucas thinks he's got us once again.

He thinks we'll be so desperate to own the "ultimate" edition of all the Star Wars movies on DVD that we'll buy the Limited Edition 2006 set, fearing we'll "miss out" since it's only going to be on sale for 3 months (and so it MUST be unique, though that "uniqueness" might just be the way it's packaged!) and then we'll buy the 2007 set just to get the new Episode I content and possibly some new special edition changes.

Sure, you could try to sell your old copies cheap, or give them away as gifts to friends. Lucas is just double-dipping like so many other studios and producers are doing these days to blatantly milk extra cash off of their devoted fanbase.

I'm now debating whether or not to get the "Limited Edition" set at all. Sure, it would be all I really asked for, but I could save money and just order individual discs off of ebay in the future from the "new ultimate" set. Of course I'd have to wait another year probably, but still. Isn't that worth saving a couple of hundred bucks and still be a Star Wars fan?

I own the prequels already. Frankly, I don't think making Yoda CGI would really make TPM anymore worth watching. If anything it'd be a once-over for the novelty. Just imagine the Special Edition of a New Hope. Would you buy it again if all that was different was they redid CGI Jabba AGAIN and made him look a little bit more lifelike than before? Deleted scenes would be cool, but if it's just going to be the trailer scenes that didn't make it into the movie and the four Tatooine scenes (Luke and the treadwell droid at the farm; Luke & friends at Toschi Station; Luke & Biggs having a drink outdoors; alternate long Mos Eisley cantina rough cut in black & white) which are ALREADY available for free on the internet and on the very cheap (but out of print, though available through ebay or whatever) "Behind the Magic" CD-ROM... why bother?

It would need to be never before released stuff (not just some 1 second long clip of Luke walking past the camera) or redone in high quality (I'm talking 2004 set "restored" quality, with proper color timing though) to make it attractive to me for a buy.

This time around I don't feel like making excuses for Lucas for shoddy quality. How many times does he think I'm going to buy the movies? If it's not worth more than a rental, it's a no buy. This time I'm going to try before I buy!

Other thoughts, please post...
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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:30 AM

There is a good possibility that I will buy the un-modified versions of the films this Sptember. And that's it. I already bought EP 1, 2, and 3 on DVD when they came out and the special features were silly at best. The documenteries were hilarious at what people were trying to say and sound professional at it. I will not buy this 2007 release because I don't want to see anymore footage butchered. It's all a lucritive act.
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Posted 25 August 2006 - 01:38 AM

I will be buying both the September 2006 editions, and the boxset of 2007. I have more than enough money.

You guys are just afraid to go out on a limb and see if there might actually be something good in the DVD's. wink.gif
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Posted 25 August 2006 - 02:00 AM

Yes. We don't like disappointment - and we certainly don't like forking out money for it either.
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Posted 25 August 2006 - 03:15 AM

Right now I don't intend to buy the September DVD's, and, at present I can't think of what the 2007 discs would have that I'd want. But, then again, who knows? I'll read reviews of what's on the September releases and that might change my mind. I don't currently own any Star Wars movies on DVD. The last Star Wars purchase I made was when the Original Trilogy was released in a VHS boxed set for the last time. So, at some point I would like to own the movies on DVD; it's just hard to commit to buying the set when I'm almost guaranteed a new version every couple of years.

And CGI Yoda? That doesn't exactly make me want to rush out and pre-order them.

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 01:37 AM

QUOTE (StarWarsIsUs @ Aug 25 2006, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will be buying both the September 2006 editions, and the boxset of 2007. I have more than enough money.

You guys are just afraid to go out on a limb and see if there might actually be something good in the DVD's. wink.gif


I'd be a moron to just buy it without knowing what I'm really getting. So none of this pre-order BS. I'm reading reviews, watching it if I can, etc.

Ever heard of rentals? Better to spend a couple of bucks and be disappointed, than to shell out almost 200 bucks ($30x3 + 100$ for the 2007 set) to get a pile of crap.

This would actually be a quadruple dip.

2004

2005 (double dip)

2006 (triple dip)

2007 (quadruple dip)


Of course 2007 might actually be new content, but honestly, what more damage could Lucas do?

CG Ewoks? Hayden in burn makeup replacing Shaw under the mask? CG Yoda? Watto at Jabba's?

It can only get lamer. I thought Lucas said that this last edition was his true vision? Now suddenly it's not enough? Will we get to see Mustafar, Geonosis, Kamino, and Otapau (and hear that lizard howling again, hey, he survived!) "liberated" at the end of ROTJ?

Greedo and Han do a musical number before shooting each other?

Arrrgghh. I can't bear to watch.

Lucas has brought this on himself. He's like Michael Jackson and plastic surgery. Once he gets started he just can't stop!


PS: If I could sell my old sets and get a good price for them, I wouldn't feel so bad, but really. Why does Lucas need to treat his movies like Bill Gates treats his operating systems?

This post has been edited by KurganX: 26 August 2006 - 01:39 AM

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#7 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 05:17 AM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Aug 25 2006, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd be a moron to just buy it without knowing what I'm really getting. So none of this pre-order BS. I'm reading reviews, watching it if I can, etc.


Amen! Why is the only explanation for me not wanting to buy the movies because I'm afraid? Because, of course, given the track record of Star Wars DVD releases so far, obviously there's soooo much content I want to own.

It's like telling me that the only reason I don't want to stick my hand in a mouse trap is because I'm afraid there won't be any benefit to doing so. I don't give a damn what positive benefits I might get from letting a steel trap slam shut on my hand! I know for sure that there ARE going to be negative results.

My guess is that in the next update of Star Wars, not only will Greedo shoot first, but Han won't shoot at all. In fact, Greedo will be killed because his blaster fire ricochets off of the wall behind Han and hits Greedo in the chest. Because, even though he's a smuggler and a "scoundrel," Han's too good a guy to actually shoot someone that's trying to kill him.

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:23 AM

QUOTE (johnnycancer @ Aug 26 2006, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My guess is that in the next update of Star Wars, not only will Greedo shoot first, but Han won't shoot at all. In fact, Greedo will be killed because his blaster fire ricochets off of the wall behind Han and hits Greedo in the chest. Because, even though he's a smuggler and a "scoundrel," Han's too good a guy to actually shoot someone that's trying to kill him.

laugh.gif Sig, please?
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

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#9 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 01:50 PM

Let me say that I don't care how many times Lucas revamps his movies. I'm just saying I won't be buying them. I see no reason to. The changes he'll make (given his previous track record) will just be lame and throw-away. Chances are far more likely that most of what we've seen before won't get changed or added to in any meaningful way, only repackaged.

I STRONGLY DOUBT there will be any real "improvements" only changes. No matter how much you tweak the special effects in Episode I or clean up the format (or rather, master it to DVD properly the first time around), it won't change the fact that it's the weakest of all the Star Wars movies in terms of plot and characters for a lot of fans, including myself. It was hugely overhyped and hugely disappointing. Do you remember those people who waited 42 days in line to see it in theaters on opening? What a waste! They were expecting a movie with the same (or more) "magic" than the original Star Wars in 1977, but it was not to be. The only place it really shines is in terms of the lightsaber battles, but even then, some people didn't like the new dialougeless flippy style (I personally greatly enjoyed it, and that's probably the only reason I own a copy of the DVD today, apart from for "completness sake".. which I bought used, btw!).


Back in the VHS and Beta days, Lucas (and others) had far more excuse for multiple releases than he does now. As we all know, video tape was fragile stuff. It was sensitive to magnets. Every time you watched it, rewound it, fast forwarded it, paused it, etc. it was, even if ever so slightly, stretched. Over time this stretching caused the sound and picture to deteriorate, to the point where they would be unwatchable. And the way Star Wars fans would watch their favorite movies over and over would mean that they would tend to wear out. I've speculated that the materials used in VHS tapes over the years have gotten cheaper. I have some old commercial Captain Power tapes from 1987-88 that feel "heavier" than modern movie tapes from 1999-2000. And bear in mind that the Captain Power tapes typically had only 60 minutes per tape (3 twenty minute episodes), whereas these movie tapes had 2 hours on them. My family has tons of audio cassettes, literally hundresd of them, and most of them (except ones that were left out in the sun or something) sound pretty good today. However I remember buying Tom Petty's "Greatest Hits" when it came out on audio cassette in the 1990's and the tape literally broke in the player after only a few days (and I'd lost the reciept so couldn't return it). It was then that I swore off tapes and went to disc.

Anyway, VHS is dead now (the last movies on the format have come out, now they just sell the blank tapes and remaining stock of those last movie titles), and people are already predicting the death of DVD (hope not, and I don't see HDDVD/Bluray overtaking the market for a long long time... need we examine the case of the LaserDisc and DVD-Audio/SCD formats to see where things could go wrong?).

DVD's are a different story. Except the most poorly handled, cheaply made DVDs, these things will last a long long time, far longer than the best VHS tapes. And when you buy a used disc, even if it has minor scratches on it, a 10$ cleaning kit (which is normally good for dozens if not a hundred or so disc cleanings) will repair them and make it play like new. When you buy a used VHS tape, it's usually worn and often on its "last legs" so to speak. The DVD package may be a bit beat up, but the movie itself plays fine as if it were bought yesterday.

So Star Wars DVDs are going to be good for a long, long time. No longer do fans and Lucas have the excuse that "well my tape wore out, time to buy a new one, thankfully a new one is available!"

Lucas got a LOT of mileage out of re-releasing Star Wars in theaters. But the prequels came out in the home video era, so they didn't see re-release (TPM got one small limited re-release and that was it, at the tail end of its run). He got a lot of mileage out of re-releasing the VHS tapes to fans who wore out their old tapes.

But now that DVD is here, what's going on? He can only re-sell them if he entices fans with a new package, or new tweaks.

But even that isn't enough, I see so many fans being hoodwinked into buying it ONE MORE TIME even if nothing is different. It just boggles my mind.

And it's not like these are action figures that are going to be sitting inside their pristine packages and held onto for 25 years so they go up in value. These are MOVIES which are meant to be cracked open, tossed into a DVD player on a TV or computer and WATCHED.

And in the era of cheap DVD burners and media (blank DVD's are actually cheaper, per megabyte, than blank CDR's), it's not hard to make a copy of your movies if you're worried that one will get scratched, though I will admit that hollywood companies try something every few years to try to make them harder to copy (and software companies just play catch up with ways to circumvent these protections... if all else fails the person can download a ripped copy for backup purposes).

So another reason to buy multiple copies of the same movie disappears.

There was a reason to upgrade from VHS to DVD, because of the fragility of the tape. There was a reason to upgrade from LaserDisc because LD's were expensive and because of their large size, more flexible and susceptable to "laser rot" (making them virtually unwatchable). You also often had to flip the movie or change discs mid movie, which sucks. Plus they were always more expensive and thus never caught on except with hardcore movie buffs. DVD's are actually cheaper to produce than VHS! They even take up less shelfspace, all things considered.

But going from DVD to HD-DVD or Bluray? Most consumers can't see a whole lot of difference. You also need to invest in brand new hardware to be able to play them, much less appreciate the difference (and hopefull not get suckered into buying a plasma screen that will dim in a few years, despite costing more than a similar quality LCD). The formats are at war, and who knows which one will "come out on top"? Remember VHS vs. Beta or DVD vs. DIVX?

Back in the day (in the last years of the 20th century, wow that sounds dramatic!) I was like so many others. I wanted the "best" version of every movie that I liked on DVD. I would want the one with the most features, etc. So if a new version of a movie I already had came out, I'd give away the one I had and get a new one. But now with things like Netflix and libraries with massive DVD collections and free movies, I figure it's just a waste of time and money to keep trying to re-collect every new version that comes out. Movie companies know that people are suckers, so they'll keep double dipping as long as its profitable. Now that everyone is doing it, I can't give Lucas anymore excuses.



I DO want to own an official copy of the original movies on DVD, the trouble is Lucas seems to be thumbing his nose at us even as he grants this fan request, refusing the anamorphic widescreen and apparently just giving us LaserDisc dumps from 1993 with crappy photoshopped covers (we can make our own covers of course). I imagine I'll buy those and trade/sell the remaining copies (since I already own the 4 disc 2004 set) and recoup my losses.


But to all those buying new cardboard boxes, good luck to you, and enjoy CG Yoda!

Okay, that's enough ranting from me for now! wink.gif

This post has been edited by KurganX: 26 August 2006 - 02:04 PM

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#10 User is offline   Karig Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 04:28 PM

As long as there are people fanatic enough about Star Wars to snatch up every variation on the films, Lucas will keep producing these little variations. Personally, while I always loved the original Star Wars films, I was never one of those people who collect books and toys and games and posters and costumes and such. I have the "new" variations of the original trilogy on DVD (Han talking to Jabba the Hut in ANH, Gungans screaming "Weesa FREEEE!" at the end of ROTJ, etc.), and while it would be nice to have the unaltered originals, Lucas does not seem interested in ever releasing the unaltered originals, and I'm not interested in getting new variations that are even more different from the unaltered originals than what I have now.

Lucas did the same thing to THX 1138 -- he altered it. He took a film he made around 1975 and stuck in a couple of CGI (I mean really OBVIOUS CGI) baboon-like mutant monsters in the tunnel in the last fifteen or so minutes of the film. I'm not even a huge fan of THX 1138, but good God, those things really looked out of place in the context of the rest of the film.

So Lucas likes to tinker with his films. So you can predict that each new edition of a film is going to be more and more different from the original. Maybe if I'm still around in 2035 or 2040 I'll rent the latest version of one of Lucas's films and see if I can still recognize the film. laugh.gif

But I really don't need more than one version of the Star Wars films. I don't need more than one version of the Lord of the Rings films (I have the Extended Edition versions and don't need the theatrical versions), or the Indiana Jones films, or the Die Hard films, or the Aliens films, or the James Bond films, or Sergio Leone's "Man with No Name" trilogy, or Akira Kurosawa's films, or even the Hellraiser films. laugh.gif So why exactly do I need another repackaging of the Star Wars films?
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#11 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:00 PM

QUOTE (Karig @ Aug 26 2006, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe if I'm still around in 2035 or 2040 I'll rent the latest version of one of Lucas's films and see if I can still recognize the film. laugh.gif



That's a good point actually. Are they really the same films? Given everything that's been done to the OT now, I'd have to say no. But, I'm sure some people would disagree. I guess at their heart, the movies are the same; the story hasn't really changed (as long as you ignore the PT); but, I still don't feel like they're the same movies.

My best example is Apocalypse Now. There's two versions; Apocaplypse Now, and Apocalpyse Now Redux. Now, I like Apocalypse Now, but, Redux is terrible. There's like an hour of extra footage added and it completely throws the pacing off and while some of othe interactions with new characters are interesting, ultimately, they don't ADD anything to the movie; they just make it unrecognizable.

Now, the good thing about Apocalypse Now is that, if you don't like Redux, you can still buy the original version of the movie. Amazingly, the director doesn't feel the need to force his vision of the movie onto its fans, or onto people experiencing it for the first time. It's there for people who are interested; but it's not obligatory.

On the other hand, as a Star Wars fan, and a huge fan of the OT, it's hard not to feel as if you're being raped by Lucas' artistic vision every time a new version of the OT comes out.

Anyway, I don't like having things forced on me, and, that's why I haven't bought any of the OT since the last VHS release. I would love to have a DVD version of the Original Trilogy; but I want it on my terms; and just like Lucas is apparently unwilling to compromise his vision of the movies, well, so am I.

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#12 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 10:30 AM

IT IS THE DUTY OF ALL STAR WARS FANBOYS TO PURCHASE EVERY STAR WARS PRODUCT AND LIKE IT!

(and if possible, proclaim that other people can't complain about it, even if they bought it!)



Sorry, that's another pet peeve of mine.

If you buy it and don't like it, they say "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT!"

But if you don't buy it, they say "DON'T BITCH ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU'VE TRIED IT!"

So try before you buy, bitch freely, and ignore the fanboys. They'll buy anything with the logo on it...


I stopped buying EU novels/Star Wars guides many years ago, even though I once collected them. Now? If I am curious about one, I'll thumb through it at the bookstore, or check it out from the library (that's how I read the last two prequel novelizations and the "guides" that tied in).

I did buy a few old EU novels cheap at a used bookstore awhile back and read them for fun (they sucked).

Anymore there's really no excuse to get stuck with a lemon (and there are a lot of lemons in the Star Wars franchise these days).

This post has been edited by KurganX: 28 August 2006 - 10:32 AM

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#13 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 11:03 AM

QUOTE (Karig @ Aug 26 2006, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... and while it would be nice to have the unaltered originals, Lucas does not seem interested in ever releasing the unaltered originals, and I'm not interested in getting new variations that are even more different from the unaltered originals than what I have now.


Actually, Sept 12-Nov (?)30 there is going to be a "Limited Edition" set of three releases:

Release 1: Star Wars A New Hope (Disc 1: 2004 Special Edition, "Bonus" Disc 2: 1993 Edition)
Release 2: Empire Strikes Back (Disc 1: 2004 Special Edition, "Bonus" Disc 2: 1993 Edition)
Release 3: Return of the Jedi (Disc 1: 2004 Special Edition, "Bonus" Disc 2: 1993 Edition)

What is being billed as the "Bonus" "Theatrical Editions" are supposedly the versions that existed in 1993. There is some confusion on this, as some are speculating these are the 'cleaned up masters' that were prepared for the Special Editions (that came out in 1997) BEFORE the extra scenes, tweaks and CG were added. Others, more cynically (myself included) are presuming these are just direct dumps of the LaserDisc versions that existed at that time (which were the "THX Enhanced" versions on the home format).

What that would mean is, you're getting "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" not the original opening crawl (which didn't include "Episode IV: A New Hope" and was formatted slightly differently in theaters in 1977... those famous additions were added in the 1981 re-release and every subsequent home release since then... actually the 1977 version was only released on home video in full frame, and for rental only, though some people own used copies still).

And as we all know in the THX Enhanced versions (released in 1992-95), there was a new sound mix, so certain lines were changed from what people first heard in theaters. So in Star Wars, when the Troopers are looking for the droids they say "The door's locked, move on.." instead of "This one's secure, move on..." (or words to that effect). There's the "open the blast doors/close the blast doors" thing (one half of the lines are missing in the pre-THX version), also.

In ESB there's Luke's line to R2D2 after he gets spit out by the swamp "monster" on Dabogah "You're lucky you don't taste very good!" which is replaced in the THX enhanced version with "You were lucky to get out of there."

In ROTJ when Lando is being held by the Sarlacc tentacle and Han is about to shoot it, Han's original line is "Don't worry... trust me." In the THX version he says "Don't worry, I can see a lot better!"

So anyway, despite what they're saying, most of us are assuming these will NOT be the ORIGINAL theatrical versions as were seen in theaters in 1977, 1980 and 1983, but rather the THX versions available on home video in '92-'95.

Also, Lucas snubbed us again by making them non-anamorphic widescreen (again suggesting that these are LaserDisc rips rather than new encodes based on filmic masters)... this sucks, but bear in mind it only really affects people who own widescreen TV's/monitors (though most of them these days have a "zoom" feature, you'll lose some of the sharpness and resolution when you do this to make it "forced" to take up the full screen area, than if it were true anamorphic widescreen format as the 2004 editions and the prequels are). Additionally, he made it Dolby 2.0 ONLY (rather than 5.1). For purists, the lack of 5.1 is fine, since the original movies weren't in 5.1, only the later special editions, etc. HOWEVER, there was a six channel ROTJ version released in theaters at one time, so technically that should have been made available.

Also the original Star Wars (1977) soundtrack was MONO (and the mono track also included, before later edits, Aunt Beru's original voice, before it was dubbed over by another voice actress with a softer voice, and her lips don't quite match up with what she's saying anymore).

So while you won't be seeing the CG and tweaks of the 1997 SE's in these "bonus versions" you won't truly be getting the theatrical versions either.

So there will still be a "market" for fan made (free) bootlegs based on the LaserDisc versions.

QUOTE
Lucas did the same thing to THX 1138 -- he altered it. He took a film he made around 1975 and stuck in a couple of CGI (I mean really OBVIOUS CGI) baboon-like mutant monsters in the tunnel in the last fifteen or so minutes of the film. I'm not even a huge fan of THX 1138, but good God, those things really looked out of place in the context of the rest of the film.


I haven't seen the new version yet. Supposedly this was in keeping with his "original vision" for the film, but it sounds goofy. wink.gif Fans are still quietly distributing a DVD bootleg based on the laserdisc render of the earlier THX-1138 (not the original original, because the version shown in theaters was actually a remake of a Lucas student film, which was super low budget, and technically released in its entiretly).

QUOTE
But I really don't need more than one version of the Star Wars films. I don't need more than one version of the Lord of the Rings films (I have the Extended Edition versions and don't need the theatrical versions), or the Indiana Jones films, or the Die Hard films, or the Aliens films, or the James Bond films, or Sergio Leone's "Man with No Name" trilogy, or Akira Kurosawa's films, or even the Hellraiser films. laugh.gif So why exactly do I need another repackaging of the Star Wars films?


I agree, I don't need multiple versions of these films either. However, when a producer/director/whatever does it RIGHT, they provide multiple versions of the same movie in the same set, so you can choose the version you like the best or for variety. The Dawn of the Dead Ultimate Edition for example includes three cuts of the film. The Aliens set I have has two versions of the movie, and the Alien version of the set has two versions of the movie (I refused to buy the "Alien Quadraligy" since the third and fourth movies were not to my liking).

When it comes to Star Wars, I only "need" the originals. The ones I saw in theaters in the 1980's, and watched on home video and on TV for almost twenty years. The Special Editions were a fun experience with friends back in 1997, but the thrill was seeing the movies on the big screen, and while the "surprises" of the new CG was a novelty, ultimately I don't really consider them much of an improvement (and in some cases a detriment to the original movies). The 2004 editions fixed a few of the 1997 shortfalls and introduced more problematic parts. So today I see them as new fangled bastardizations, not a replacement for the originals (for an example, I own both the original Night of the Living Dead and the bastardized 1998 "recut" with new scenes filmed in the 90's added in, by some of the original production staff and a new soundtrack, which are a campy novelty, but NOT the original film... much like colorized versions of old black & white films can be interesting to watch, but afterward I want to go back to the original, pristine version).

This post has been edited by KurganX: 28 August 2006 - 11:04 AM

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#14 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 03:18 AM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Aug 28 2006, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So anyway, despite what they're saying, most of us are assuming these will NOT be the ORIGINAL theatrical versions as were seen in theaters in 1977, 1980 and 1983, but rather the THX versions available on home video in '92-'95.


Several very good points in a well researched, thoughtful post.

There has been a lot of debate and discussion about the merits of the new "Limited Editions" that are coming out in September. To a certain extent, it probably is a lot of pointless back and forth nitpicking; I agree, anamorphic widescreen and Dolby 5.1 aren't important; especially since, as you pointed out, the original movies weren't in 5.1 in the first place. And, I definitely don't own a widescreen TV, so, chances are anamorphic widescreen or lack thereof won't make a big difference for my viewing experience.

But, I guess why those features are such a big deal to us is that, for fans of the original movies (the ones we saw in theatres and the ones we saw on home video in the 70's and 80's) it seems as if the movies that we love are being disrespected. Why do movies like "Dawn of the Dead" (part of a good series in its own right) get better treatment than the Original Star Wars Trilogy?

I mean, for God's sake, look at a movie like "Baba Yaga," which is a really stupid Italian erotic horror movie from the 1970's; it's available on DVD; comes in Anamorphic Widescreen format; comes with deleted and censored scenes, an interview with the director; a documentary on Guido Crepax, the erotic artist whose work inspired the movie; and the original trailer. And, I might add, all of these are never before seen features; prior to the release of this DVD "Baba Yaga" was only available as "Kiss Me, Kill Me" a really poor quality transfer usually included as part of cheap horror DVD boxed sets. And what high powered studio put out the definitive edition of "Baba Yaga?" Criterion? No! Blue Underground! I defy any of you to even name another Blue Underground release.

That's inexcusable. If a no-name studio can provide this kind of treatment to a movie that's one of the poorest examples of its genres (okay, I like "Baba Yaga," I'll admit it, but, still, it's not a very good movie) and that only a niche audience could ever possibly be interested in, then why isn't Lucasfilm able to do the same for one of the greatest and most loved movie trilogies of all time? Especially when any number of studios would glady do the remastering and clean up of the Original Trilogy at no cost to Lucas, simply for the privilege of being attached to the Star Wars name.

It's things like the above DVD releases that make it difficult for me to justify buying these September releases. I don't care about any special features or documentaries; I don't even care if there's any commentary tracks. But, I don't want to buy something that's a) not what I wanted in the first place, cool.gif forces me to buy another Special Edition disc, c) borders on being the same quality as some of the fan-made bootlegs I could buy on the Internet for the same price, if not less.

Anyway, this might make me sound like a whiny fanboy, but, it's a matter of principle that keeps me from rushing out and pre-ordering the September releases.

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#15 User is offline   Karig Icon

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Post icon  Posted 29 August 2006 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE (johnnycancer @ Aug 29 2006, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And what high powered studio put out the definitive edition of "Baba Yaga?" Criterion? No! Blue Underground! I defy any of you to even name another Blue Underground release.

laugh.gif Actually Blue Underground seems to specialize in restoring movies from Italy (and probably other countries) -- spaghetti Westerns and the like. I've got several of their spaghetti Westerns on DVD: Django, Django Kill, Run Man Run, Mannaja, and a few others whose names escape me.

Not that any of this changes your point about the original trilogy getting short shrift. cool.gif
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