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The Vader/Tattooine Connection Knowing what we know now......

#16 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 12:08 AM

QUOTE (Casual Fan @ Aug 21 2006, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This just reinforces my conviction that if the prequels had been done properly, Anakin Skywalker could NOT have been from Tatooine. Yes, I know that Obi Wan said the Owen didn't want Luke's father to leave here, but that line is much easier to explain than either "hiding" Vader's son on Vader's home planet, or Vader not following the droids when they escape to a planet he knows better than anyone else in the imperial service.


Jesus Christ. I hate this. I forgot, that was the plan at the end of ATOC; take Vader's son, and hide him in the place Vader would least likely look for him, i.e. Vader's home planet. To quote something that Chefelf wrote about another one of the many stupid things in the PT:

QUOTE
Yoda: A stroke of brilliance this Council has made.


But, of course, let's not forget, the Jedi were not as strong in their ability to use The Force by that time...

Of course, at the end of AOTC, Vader isn't supposed to know he has any children, and, based on what's shown in the OT, Vader doesn't even begin to suspect he has a son until the end of ANH; he doesn't know for sure that he has a son until the end of ESB; and he doesn't even know about a daughter until almost the very end of ROTJ. So, maybe the hiding place was picked because Tatooine was a place nobody wanted to go, and Vader wasn't going to be looking anyway.

Anyway, I'm sad now...

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#17 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 02:02 AM

The only way I have been able to deal with the PT is DENIAL.

Vader had an assload of underlings who could go planetside, in a desert, while in full armor. He could stay aboard the ship, in his private quarters in comfort.
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#18 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 05:00 AM

QUOTE (miladyblue @ Aug 26 2006, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The only way I have been able to deal with the PT is DENIAL.



Mildayblue, you always know what to say to make me feel better.

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#19 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 05:06 AM

Yeah. Denial that it is canon.

The PT as a non-canon saga isn't all that bad. It is while in pure contrast to the OT that it starts sucking.
SecretShadow (SuperShadow's main adversary)

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#20 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 05:20 AM

QUOTE (StarWarsIsUs @ Aug 26 2006, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah. Denial that it is canon.

The PT as a non-canon saga isn't all that bad. It is while in pure contrast to the OT that it starts sucking.



Yeah, that's mostly how I try to think of the PT. It's just kind of a What-if? story. So, it doesn't have to jive with all of the OT. But, I don't know, even if the PT isn't in direct contrast to the OT, it still starts sucking pretty early on.

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#21 User is offline   Grand Luffy Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 05:24 AM

The tune would play a different tone had Lucas did TPM in 1977 where Lucas would actully know where he going but since Lucas is not a deep thinker, he ends up doing the PT in 1999 which made so many confusion.

Lucas should know better.
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#22 User is offline   TruJade Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 12:58 PM

Yes, he should know better
but than he wouldn't be George Lucas
and we wouldn't be discussing these SW wonders

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and it holds everything together


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#23 User is offline   Casual Fan Icon

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 01:01 AM

Bit busy to post now, but bringing back this thread reminds me how the twist at the end of "Empire Strikes Back" really messes up any attempt at the prequels.

Luke comes from Tatooine. He meets an old hermit named Obi Wan, who starts training him to be a Jedi. Obi Wan tells Luke that his father, "a good man", was a Jedi but was killed by Darth Vader. Luke lives with his uncle, Owen, who objected to Luke's father leaving Tatooine and becoming a Jedi.

Meanwhile, Darth Vader is orbiting Tatooine as they speak. Since he knows that two droids with the plans to the Death Star, the empire's superweapon, have escaped to Tatooine, he sends stormtroopers to track down the droids. Being stormtroopers, they kill everyone in their way, including Luke's uncle. But the droids make it to Obi Wan, who convinces Luke, who has no other option, to leave Tatooine with him and take the plans to the rebel leaders.

However, Obi Wan's craft gets captured by the Death Star, and Obi Wan winds up fighting Vader, who seems somewhat surprised that the latter is still around. Vader kills Obi Wan. Luke escapes and later destroys the Death Star.

So far, this is all very straightforward. Then, in "Empire Strikes Back", Vader tracks down Luke and tells Luke that Vader is Luke's father.

Presumably, either Obi Wan is lying or Vader is lying. If Vader is lying, the plot still makes sense, though if that is revealed in the next movie it would be a bit of a letdown after the buildup in ESB. If Obi Wan is lying, this raises a number of questions. Such as, why did Obi Wan lie? Why did he "hide" Luke on Vader's home planet? Why didn't Vader try to track down Luke earlier, or return to his home planet? And why did he turn against the jedi in the first place, despite being a "good man"? The next movie, "Return of the Jedi", deals with these questions by confirming that Obi Wan was lying but otherwise ignoring them. For ROTJ, this is fine since the movie concentrates on wrapping up the trilogy and telling about the end of the rebelling. For the prequels, this is not good. The prequels, if they are to feature Vader's and Obi Wan's earlier lives at all, must answer these questions.

Lucas pretty much as tabula rasa in everything else in the prequels. He can even make the Emperor and the empire sympathetic and the jedi the bad guys and not contradict the actual story in the original trilogy too much (though he would contradict the mood). But he must answer the questions steming from the contradiction between the story told at the end of ESB (and confirmed in ROTJ), and the story in "Star Wars: a New Hope". Otherwise the plot is a mess.

As it turns out the answers are, well the question of why Obi Wan lied isn't answered at all; why he "hid" Luke on Vader's home planet isn't answered at all; Vader didn't know he had a son; and he turned against the Jedi because he was a moron. This really isn't good enough.

I think if you start answering the four questions, you have a good start to a decent background story to the prequels, that you can build on. And I did come up with a good, consistent answer recently when thinking about this. Its too bad Lucas couldn't.
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#24 User is offline   Frank the Rabbit Icon

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:45 AM

QUOTE (Darth Player @ Aug 20 2006, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In TPM Anakin says something to the effect that he's going to miss Threpio because he was a great friend, so it seems Anakin has a special fondness for Threepio at least. Its odd that in Episodes II and III< he doesn't seem to acknowledge Threepio in the slightest, instead relying heavily on R2 the way Luke did in the OT.



yes, as a KID, he said he would miss threepio. As kids, we all grow accostomed to things that later we could care less about. When he comes back as a trained jedi apprentice, i doubt he would care about a childhood "toy".
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#25 User is offline   mireaux7 Icon

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:04 AM

QUOTE (Casual Fan @ Mar 26 2007, 01:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ess.

As it turns out the answers are, well the question of why Obi Wan lied isn't answered at all; why he "hid" Luke on Vader's home planet isn't answered at all; Vader didn't know he had a son; and he turned against the Jedi because he was a moron. This really isn't good enough.


Obi-wan never lied, per se. Obi-Wan's role was to shield Luke from knowing the full truth, so Obi-wan never revealed the complete story. anakin was consumed by the evil that is darth vader. Obi-wan's role was that of a guardian against any evil that consistently tried to permeate Luke.

Luke went to reside with Owen and Beru, who just so happened to reside on Tattooine; Vader's
home planet. The best answer we get from that is they are from the same planet. so be it.


Vader always knew he had a son. even the prequels teach us this, anakin's (not vader) knowledge of this is known at the beginning of ROTS.

Vader didnt know Luke had a sister until much later..."sister?..so you have a sister!"

every SW fan pretty much knows that Lucas has not, will not answer every single SW universe question that is to be asked. Lucas leaves a lot of things as subject to interpretation. he likes it better that way.
QUOTE (njamilla @ Feb 23 2008, 08:16 AM)
Shit, Fuck, Piss: I had to say that because I can on this website. (Thanks Chef!)

QUOTE (chefelf @ Feb 23 2008, 10:30 AM)
That's what I'm here for.
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