[StarWarsIsUs]

Call me impressionable, if you would like. But I am pro-choice, due to something I saw on television. Ironically, I just happened to be watching a Christian channel. And I just happened to wake up in the middle of the night, to see something rather disturbing.

I don't care about the arguments. It no longer mattered to me, after I saw the dead, extracted fetuses laying on a metal table. And this guy took one of those tongs you use while BBQ'ing, and picked one of them up gently. And I went into the bathroom to hurl up the dinner I had a little while ago.

I don't like TBN.

I don't like the programs they have on there. Except maybe a few. Even though I don't believe everything.

It was pretty low-handed to show me that. But it worked. Are you happy, TBN? I'm pro-life. Did you acheive your mission at the sake of showing dead fetuses?

Thanks a lot, TBN. For being so twisted and manipulative.

This post has been edited by StarWarsIsUs: 19 August 2006 - 05:52 AM

[Gobbler]

But dont they pump the mother full of pain killers before the operation?

So what?

[civilian_number_two]

You got lucky there, Corvax. The weekend cam along so you don't have to wait for Cobnat's next explanation of his argument. For the record I agree with you that pregnancy doesn't make people responsible, at least not in the sense that he manet it. In the narrowest definition, yes, it makes the coupld responsible for a pregnancy hyuck hyuck, but come on. That argument would actually conclude that there are no bad parents. Come on Cobnat, didn't you see THE BREAKFAST CLUB?

As to whether the foetus feels pain, this isn't a part of the argument. If it t feels pain, it is a necessary effect of the operation, not some exagerraed and punitive pain such as you would get from torture. We don't consider pain as a part of our formula when deciding whether wars are moral, so etc. In fact pain should not be considered paert of any moral question unless it is the question itself, eg Is it ok to torture people?" or "Is it ok to randomly inflict pain?"

The question here is "Is it ok to proactively control the natural effects of the sex act, not for health but for for personal reasons?" I say yes, and then of course I like to throw in all that jazz about how in this matter men have no reproductive freedom, because really we don't. And yes, Madame Corvax, I am sorry that you live in Poland where the Catholics are still fucking with your rights. Where you are, where women do NOT have the freedom I propose we extend to men, then of course, I would never suggest that any man be allowed to avoid child support. In Poland and in siumilar countries, child support may be the penalty for casual sex (So too here, but here I say it shouldn't be).

PS: Slade edited my flaming remarks in the previous post so quickly it made my head spin. I will never say anything bad about Big Brother again! Do it to Julia! Do it to Julia!

[Cobnat]

You got lucky there, Corvax. The weekend cam along so you don't have to wait for Cobnat's next explanation of his argument. For the record I agree with you that pregnancy doesn't make people responsible, at least not in the sense that he manet it. In the narrowest definition, yes, it makes the coupld responsible for a pregnancy hyuck hyuck, but come on. That argument would actually conclude that there are no bad parents. Come on Cobnat, didn't you see THE BREAKFAST CLUB?

Yeah well, Im sorry that I believe the best in human beings.

So what?

So if they do that, chances are the fetus will also get affected by the sadetives.

This post has been edited by Cobnat: 19 August 2006 - 09:51 PM

[Madam Corvax]

You got lucky there, Corvax.

I know I am . Oh, and by the way - I love you too...

We don't consider pain as a part of our formula when deciding whether wars are moral, so etc.

Very true. I feel I should also explain a little how is my stand on abortion.Yest, it is horrible, but at the same time butchering animals for food is horrible too. So c'mon pro-life people, are you all vegetarian? Contrary to foetuses, the pain the animals feel when they are slaughtered is pretty visible.
Anyway, as often as not, decision we take in life are painful to others. So it is a decision everyone must take for themselves.

Side note- do you know that Nazis had very strict anti-abortion law? Please do not tell me that those laws had anything to do with "baby's right to live". They were directed at oppressing women and making them have more blue-eyed able soldiers to fight for Hitler.

ALso- I consider Catholich Church stand that unborn foetuses have better right to live than grown women as particularly disgusting and showing a total and complete contempt towards half of humanity. How can anyone like that consider themselves "pro-life"?????.

[Dr Lecter]

Yes, and I think its ironic that those whom are "pro-life" generally support pointless wars and execution. Now, obviously not all of them support that, but many do. Anyone that has that much disregard for human as to kill people that need not have died have no right to call themselves pro-life.

One of the key stones of Civilisation development is rights and choice, if you take away even more rights and choice, what are you saying about the world in which we live? Let's imagine I'm a poor women living in America been made illegal:

"Well, my husband was killed in Iraq, I can't get an abortion, I can't get a job because no-one will hire a pregnant women, I could get arrested for no reason and put in prison without a trial, I can't go outside with choking on gasoline fumes thanks to every President after Nixon, but hell, I still buy a gun, god bless this country."

- Just on a side note, has there ever been a non-upper class President of the United States? -

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 20 August 2006 - 05:46 AM

[civilian_number_two]

- Just on a side note, has there ever been a non-upper class President of the United States? -

Yes. The most recent being Ronald Reagan, who was born middle-class and earned wealth and a reputation as an actor and president of the screen actors' guild.

I think it's awesome now that Cobnat says he "believes the best in human beings." I imagine these are the same human being who are such promiscuous sluts and man-whores on whom he wished cunt-rot and other assorted STDs. LOL. These folks, I imagine, will become responsible despite their swinging ways, so long as we force on them the responsibilities of parenthood. I know folks, society has proven otherwise, but I suppose those olks are to blame for not living up to Cobbie's expectation of them.

[Dr Lecter]

Yes. The most recent being Ronald Reagan, who was born middle-class and earned wealth and a reputation as an actor and president of the screen actors' guild.

I wouldn'nt count Reagan since he was not middle class when he was elected.

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

I wouldn'nt count Reagan since he was not middle class when he was elected.

You didn't make that your stipulation in your intial post, because otherwise a number of US presidents in the 20th century were born into the "middle class" or below.

Are you going to begrudge people simply because they managed to make money as they got older?

[Cobnat]

"Well, my husband was killed in Iraq, I can't get an abortion, I can't get a job because no-one will hire a pregnant women, I could get arrested for no reason and put in prison without a trial, I can't go outside with choking on gasoline fumes thanks to every President after Nixon, but hell, I still buy a gun, god bless this country."

That is simply the best argument I have ever seen for pro-choice... ever! Im switching sides.

I think it's awesome now that Cobnat says he "believes the best in human beings." I imagine these are the same human being who are such promiscuous sluts and man-whores on whom he wished cunt-rot and other assorted STDs. LOL. These folks, I imagine, will become responsible despite their swinging ways, so long as we force on them the responsibilities of parenthood. I know folks, society has proven otherwise, but I suppose those olks are to blame for not living up to Cobbie's expectation of them.

I dont really care wether they live up to 'my expectations' just as long as they stay the hell out of my way (IE my school or any other place I would usualy be).

[Deepsycher]

I think that some responsibility comes to the choices that are made or depending on that choice. Some people may choose not to be responsible at the time but that can catch up with them later.

For expectations people can discriminate others by their own values. How is it known that there is another more knowledgeable race that can describe a percentage of those self proud people as to something they despise as wrong? Or especially by describing others by appearance?

Here I ask does prejudice has anything to do with this?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 20 August 2006 - 10:08 AM

[Dr Lecter]

You didn't make that your stipulation in your intial post, because otherwise a number of US presidents in the 20th century were born into the "middle class" or below.

Are you going to begrudge people simply because they managed to make money as they got older?

No, my point is that has anyone that wasn't rolling in it ever become President, because in Britian we have had Prime Ministers that were working class, middle class, and upper class. I mean, Ramsay McDonald was so poor that he couldn't afford to be Prime Minister, hence why he introduced reforms such as making 10 Downing Street the PM's offical residence. I also believe that before him there had never been pay for being Prime Minister, because they had always been independantly wealthy, hence he had to change that too.

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 20 August 2006 - 10:10 AM

[Cobnat]

I think that some responsibility comes to the choices that are made or depending on that choice. Some people may choose not to be responsible at the time but that can catch up with them later.

For expectations people can discriminate others by their own values. How is it known that there is another more knowledgeable race that can describe a percentage of those self proud people as to something they despise as wrong? Or especially by describing others by appearance?

Here I ask does prejudice has anything to do with this?

God... if only people were computers, debates would be so much easier...

(debate about abortion)

Computer 1- 1!
Computer 2- 0!

(debate about the death penalty)

Computer 1- 1!
Computer 2- 0!

(debate about gun control)

Computer 1- 1!
Computer 2- 0!

[Jordan]

Abortions can fuck up a relationship. My pal and his girlfriend pretty much ended it after the second abortion. My pal was a bit put off but his girlfriend started to resent him for it.

The baby would have probably fucked up the relationship worse. Whatever

[Madam Corvax]

I dont really care wether they live up to 'my expectations' just as long as they stay the hell out of my way (IE my school or any other place I would usualy be).

Sure thing... But you still wish them cunt rot? Sorry, this is nothing personal, I am just curious - you expressed such hatred just a few posts ago, and now you say you don't care as long as such people stay out of your way? I just can't quite imagine all those man-whores and bitches all crowding to accost you near your school entrance...

Dr Lecter - I believe Bill CLinton WAS not quite the upper crust - apparently his father was car salesman.But it is true that generally USA is run by oligarchy. Funny, though, that you should accuse USA of being run by money- I rather thought UK is run by "old boys clubs" and Oxbridge graduates with friends in high places.. BUt this is off topic...