Chefelf.com Night Life: Pro-life or Pro-choice - Chefelf.com Night Life

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Pro-life or Pro-choice what is your stand?

#1 User is offline   natalie Icon

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Post icon  Posted 17 August 2006 - 04:58 AM

Are you Pro-life or Pro-choice in abortion?

I stand for pro-life. I'm very much open-minded with the issues tackled in our society and the advantages and disadvantages of it but just think about it, the baby has the right to live isn't that enough reason?
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#2 User is offline   Kirby Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 05:13 AM

Oh shi-

This is not going to turn out well.

I've no opinion on the matter (well, no opinion concrete enough to state with pride) because I don't have the fiddly bits that make up the majority of baby-making, nor am I persueing a career in medicine. So none of my business la la la I can't hear you.
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#3 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 05:30 AM

Pro-choice. The right to live itself isn't enough of a reason, I'm afraid. Life, in itself, however, is. Yes, I know, sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. A mother who doesn't want the child, or doesn't think that she's capable of bringing it up or whatever should have the option to abort the pregnancy.

I'd like to think that abortion is meant to prevent children from being born into a fucked up life filled with misery and to prevent parents from wrecking their lives likewise.

And now I'll shut up, for I'm afraid that I'm still a little bit too tired to adequately participate in such debates. Maybe tonight again.

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#4 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:20 AM

I don't like either the phrase pro-choice or pro-life, as they're both weasel words deisigned to promote logical fallacies, i.e. either "you're either pro or anti-life", or "you're pro or anti-choice". I support a woman's right to choose to have an abortion or not. It's her body and I think it takes a while for that little bundle of growing cells to be human enough to be considered a being that deserves to be protected by laws. That little while is during the first trimester, methinks. I haven't looked into human development in a while, so that estimate is a bit arbitrary, but really, you should make up your mind early about this sort of thing anyway. Of course, abortion is not an excuse to have unprotected sex or anything silly like that, as there's the potential for human life that's being eliminated, and besides, there are so many parents waiting for adoptions that someone else can take care of the child. Overall, I would personally choose adoption over abortion, unless it was discovered that my child had some sort of birth defect that prevented any semblence of a normal life once out of the womb, and even if abortion was the option chosen, it would still be a rather dismal decision.

All that being said, I'm going to do my best not to participate in debate and just moderate this topic, as it's probably going to get messy, fast. People, no foaming at the mouth, personal insults, etc. You know the drill.
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#5 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 12:33 PM

I think that since we really can't know when that little bundle of cells is human enough to be human, that the potential for human life is enough to make abortion wrong. Because you really don't know. You don't know if that little bundle of cells would grow up to be the next Hitler or man who finds the cure for AIDS, you don't know if that little bundle of cells is or isn't already having cohesive thoughts of its own. So I would prefer the little bundle of cells be given a chance. Especially since abortion is such a crude and violent practice - I think my opinion might be slightly different if there were better methods of terminating pregancy.

HOWEVER... Whilst you could say I'm pro-life, ethically; politically, I don't know if I'd put myself there. The problem is, if you make abortion illegal, it would create problems like back during Prohibition, except with human lives instead of alcohol. Instead of going to sterile clinics with doctors who know what they're doing and counselors that can help the women through the emotional distress that usually occurs, you'll have women going to dark, dirty alleys to meet some dark, dirty guy to do the deed; or reverting to old practices like coathanger abortions. It will not only be nearly as many abortions as when it's legal (because if a woman is determined to abort the baby, she will find a way whether it's legal or not) but also it will be an extreme danger to the women, both physically and emotionally. Botched abortions will result in severely deformed, unhealthy babies. A sort of black market will open up for abortions.

So, while I am completely against abortion, I don't see making it illegal as a viable option. Yes, my views are complicated.

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 12:53 PM

What do you mean by crude and violent? Your so-called black market has happened in the past, sadly. But I do agree, just practice safe sex, or have no sex, and you never need to enter into this sort of problem.

On an unrelated note and tangent that I will correct if it gets taken too far, where are the "dark, dirty" women? Are they just all prostitutes or something? And if so, shouldn't they be clean to attract a better clientele?
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#7 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 01:04 PM

...Fine, the pregnant women who want an abortion go to a dark, dirty alley to meet dark, dirty women to get their coathanger abortion. I merely said "guy" because abortion docs usually are men. In fact, I don't believe I've ever heard of a woman who does abortions.

And what do I mean by crude and violent? Have you ever looked into how an abortion is done? *shudder* I really hope the fetus can't feel pain at these points, but we don't even know that much. We know when the pain receptors begin to appear, but there is a possibility that the fetus can feel pain some time before we can see that they definitely can.
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Posted 17 August 2006 - 01:13 PM

"Right to Choose" happy.gif
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Posted 17 August 2006 - 01:25 PM

I think our society is entirely backward on this topic, allowing reproductive freedom only to women, and not offering it to men. Men should also have a say in whether a woman will keep or trerminate a pregnancy. If a woman decides to keep a child while the man involved wanted an abortion, then he should be able to walk away with no consequence. After all, and make sure you understand what I mean by this, he did NOT "get her pregnant." That idea is antique. Women have the option to have sex or to not have it, to use birth control or to not use it, and to have an abortion or to not have it. The last of these three options is not available to men. Women having all of the authority, should be prepared to accept all of the responsibility.

Of course, in long-term relationships with planned or mutually accepted pregnancies, men cannot walk away at any time. I am not advocating that we drop child support altogether. I am advocating that we drop it in the case of one-night-stands or non-serious relationships.
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Posted 17 August 2006 - 01:44 PM

I figured that you'd bring that up, Civ.

Spoon: I wasn't trying to make a point. I was legitimately wondering where the shady women are. In answer to your questions, yes, and I'm unsure as to what techniques you're discussing, and how they're crude and violent.
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#11 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 02:27 PM

Even though I am pro-choice, I have no problem with pro-life people. It's your view, but making it illegal will just make it ten times worse. When it was illegal it still went on, if it was made illegal it would still go on. The only difference is that they couldn't get it done in a safe enviroment, in a place where they won't get infected and die. Anyone that thinks the law needs to be changed needs their head examined, sure talk to mother if you want. But my athesist god, changing the law would lead to even more people dieing. Let us not forget, that was the reason why a certain Catholic priest campaigned for its legalisation, not because he was pro-choice, but because many women were dieing or becoming seriously ill getting 'back-street' abortions.

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 17 August 2006 - 02:27 PM

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#12 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 05:45 PM

Slade, I don't really want to get into the gore here. I'll tell you in private.
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#13 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE (natalie @ Aug 17 2006, 01:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you Pro-life or Pro-choice in abortion?

I stand for pro-life. I'm very much open-minded with the issues tackled in our society and the advantages and disadvantages of it but just think about it, the baby has the right to live isn't that enough reason?


My views are simple... No abortion unless rape or incest.
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#14 User is offline   natalie Icon

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Post icon  Posted 17 August 2006 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE (Dr Lecter @ Aug 17 2006, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even though I am pro-choice, I have no problem with pro-life people. It's your view, but making it illegal will just make it ten times worse. When it was illegal it still went on, if it was made illegal it would still go on. The only difference is that they couldn't get it done in a safe enviroment, in a place where they won't get infected and die.


I agree with you. Making it legal will only make the situation worst. Religion, political agenda and others will be brought out.

Like others I am pro-life I'm sure 30 days will have a great debate about it on their episode about abortion http://www.fxnetworks.com/30days
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#15 User is offline   EwokHunter Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE (Cobnat @ Aug 17 2006, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My views are simple... No abortion unless rape or incest.


Well but rape and incest are two different things:

Rape: You don't want it.

Incest: You're an idiot that have sex with maybe your idiot sister or brother.
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