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Now you see him... Or, what the hell happened to Obi Wan?

#1 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 09:07 PM

Just watched ANH again and as usual, I got to the "death" of Obi Wan scene, and had the usual, "What happened?" reaction again.

Obi Wan looks over at Luke, gives an enigmatic little smile, then turns back to Darth Vader, holding his lightsaber up in front of him, closing his eyes. It is NOT a defensive move, because Darth Vader is easily able to cut him in half (apparently) with no resistance. An empty robe hits the deck, along with a deactivated lightsaber. Vader prods the cloth with his foot, his lightsaber still ignited, as though he was expecting something to happen that would require said lightsaber for defensive purposes. Nothing. Just an empty robe and a deactivated lightsaber.

So what just happened? I don't buy the "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine," line as being something literal, i.e. the "unlimited power" Palpy was babbling about in RotS. (In fact, thinking of that celluloid blasphemy in the same instant as my beloved Star Wars makes me a little queasy.)

This was not supposed to happen in the original story, I understand, but GL was trying for some dramatic tension to the escape from the Death Star. He succeeded, because here was someone who literally gave his life as a distraction for our heroes to escape. This makes the subsequent "certain point of view" crap all that much worse in RotJ.

Since this occurred when the Force was just "An energy field that surrounds us, penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together," about the only thing that this scene could POSSIBLY suggest is Obi Wan surrendered himself FULLY - body, mind and soul - to the Force. Yoda subsequently did the same thing in RotJ.

What think the rest of you?
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#2 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE
This makes the subsequent "certain point of view" crap all that much worse in RotJ.


Agreed.

I pretty much agree with you. Obi-Wan surrendered himself FULLY. There is no doubt about that in my mind.... which brings this question to my mind.

Did Yoda NEED to, too? If Yoda didn't NEED to, I know why Lucas had him do it... it was so as not to traumatize young kids seeing Yoda laying there dead. Lucas is kind of a pussy sometimes.

But, I don't mind, because it adds to that very fairytale appeal of ROTJ.

Didn't mean to get off topic there.
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#3 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 12:07 AM

Obi-Wan's death is a mess because Lucas threw everything off kilter with what we saw later. Like it's been said, the idea with Yoda and Obi-Wan vanishing when they died seemed to have been because they accepted their deaths and embraced it, becoming one with the Force when they died. As a kid, I assumed that's what happened to Vader, too, after Luke took his mask off. I just figured that the funeral pyre was Luke burning the Vader suit only, and the body was gone. In a way, I think that would make the pyre more meaningful...Anakin Skywalker was finally one with the Force, and so Luke was truly only burning away "Darth Vader"...one last literal step to freeing his father. Of course, that doesn't really work when you think about all the awful things Vader must have done, and it was all fixed just because he threw an old man down a deep hole.

Plus, the whole "vanishing" bit is ruined by all the dead Jedis we see not becoming one with the Force in the prequels. Granted, maybe it's because they were taken by surprise, but what about Qui-Gon? Shouldn't he have vanished?

On a side note, if you watch Vader cutting through Obi-Wan, it looks like he's actually cutting through the blade of Obi-Wan's lightsaber. Whoops.
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#4 User is offline   Dorothy Icon

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 09:25 AM

Lately I've been toying with the idea that maybe Obi didn't die just then. Maybe he pulled a collosal jedi mind trick, and snuck away to wreak havok on the Death Star like backing up all the toilets or shorting out the power in some sections. Then he would have died when the Death Star finally exploded.

It amuses me to think of him running around like that...
"The problem is, you're not a kangaroo... that's a bear... and he's in your pants."
"Maybe artists shouldn't talk about their art."
"Well kids, I guess your father isn't a hermaphrodite."
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#5 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 10:34 AM

QUOTE (Dorothy @ Jul 25 2006, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lately I've been toying with the idea that maybe Obi didn't die just then. Maybe he pulled a collosal jedi mind trick, and snuck away to wreak havok on the Death Star like backing up all the toilets or shorting out the power in some sections. Then he would have died when the Death Star finally exploded.

It amuses me to think of him running around like that...


Old and naked?
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#6 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 11:51 PM

Good one, Dorothy! It sounds like an old Bloom County Cartoon, where Binkley and a bunch of the other kids wanted to sneak into the Pentagon and flush all of the toilets, and turn everything "Higglety Pigglety" so that no one would think to fire nuclear weapons. laugh.gif

QUOTE
Old and naked?


Naw, with CGI, he could slip into Ewan McGregor mode - Ewan is on record not minding getting naked on screen. I'd pay to see that!
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#7 User is offline   Dorothy Icon

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 02:52 PM

blush.gif Me too... Especially if he was sabotaging the Death Star. I think this should be included in the next updated versions.

But he wouldn't have to be naked, while we did see his cloak hit the floor, I don't recall seeing his pants there.
"The problem is, you're not a kangaroo... that's a bear... and he's in your pants."
"Maybe artists shouldn't talk about their art."
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#8 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 05:24 PM

QUOTE
Did Yoda NEED to, too? If Yoda didn't NEED to, I know why Lucas had him do it... it was so as not to traumatize young kids seeing Yoda laying there dead. Lucas is kind of a pussy sometimes.


Is that he real reason? Because that is really funny.


Obi-Wan and Yoda, after they died, turned into invisible midi-chlorians. The reason Qui-Gon didn't dissapear, is because usually people don't know how to turn into midi-chlorians unless they study hard. Later, Qui-Gon's corpse did, after the Jedi put a special powder on it during the funeral ceremony. The powder substance helped convert Qui-Gon's molecules into midi-chlorians fully, that way his spirit could move on away from the physical realm.

-George Lucas
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#9 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 12:04 AM

Nice.
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#10 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 12:09 AM

LOL! Nice George Lucas "quote" there, SWIU. smile.gif


No, I don't think that's the real reason, but it sure jives with the whole "Greedo shot first" and editing the f*** out of the MF escape and shoot out with the stormtroopers (and the detention cell scene, too, from what I've heard) in the SE. Lucas didn't want to "traumatize" his own children watching. Yeah, sure, then a few years later he has his own son getting blasted by stormtroopers in ROTS. Lucas is a moron. That can not be stressed enough.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#11 User is offline   Vesuvius Icon

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:46 PM

Special Powder?! WTH?! Oh, Lucas, be thee on the special powder known as crack? Where in the world did this "special powder" bit come about? I read the book of Ep I and it was better than the movie, but I do not recall anyone putting crack, ... I mean special powder on Qui-gon's carrion.
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#12 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:50 PM

I still can't believe that Lucas would do that to Jet.

JET: Hey, adoptive dad, can I be in Revenge of the Sith?

GEORGE: Sure, adopted son. You can be one of the apprentices that kills a couple of clones, but then is shot to death in front of the screen.

JET: YIPPEE!
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#13 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:06 AM

The character you're referring to, Star Wars Is Us, is that the same kid who was killed by the clone troopers right in front of Bail Organa?
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#14 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 01:40 PM

Yes, exactly.

That was Jet.

QUOTE
Special Powder?! WTH?! Oh, Lucas, be thee on the special powder known as crack? Where in the world did this "special powder" bit come about? I read the book of Ep I and it was better than the movie, but I do not recall anyone putting crack, ... I mean special powder on Qui-gon's carrion.


I'm with you. I have no clue what GL was talking about.
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#15 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 06:54 AM

At least GL wasn't crass enough to "kill off" his own son by having the clone troopers take him back to their barracks and screw him to death.

"Bend over that footlocker and SQUEAL like a gundark!"

This post has been edited by miladyblue: 31 August 2006 - 06:55 AM

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