[Sailor Abbey]

Ok so TPM is on HBO right now - and Quigon just poked Anakins arm with the midiclorian blood test thing.

Anakin says, “what are you doing?’

Quigon replies, “I’m just checking your blood for infections.

Then he calls up Obiwan and says “I need to do a midiclorian count.


I don’t even think what he told Anakin was the truth from a certain point of view. He just straight up lied to the little boy.

I’m not really sure where I’m going with this, but then, I’m just as unsure as where GL was going with this. What the hell is Quigon supposed to be? I thought there were good guys and bad guys (when it came to the Force) and no in-betweens.

This is what I get for channel surfing.

[jariten]

Qui Gon does tell him what midichlorians are (you have to watch a film you hate a bit longer to get to that part though), but there was no need to clog his head up with that crap there and then with the little brat needing an early night and all that

"Annie, bed time!"

[Sailor Abbey]

Qui Gon does tell him what midichlorians are (you have to watch a film you hate a bit longer to get to that part though), but there was no need to clog his head up with that crap there and then with the little brat needing an early night and all that

"Annie, bed time!"

There’s this little thing I like to call 'honesty.' And usually people who claim to be 'good' are fairly accustomed to it.

Sure Quigon tells him days later what Midichlorians are... but not because he wanted to. Anakin says

"Quigon sir? I heard Master Yoda talking about midichlorians. What are midichlorians?"

And then Quigon consigns himself to the truth at long last.

I don’t like to think that Jedi are lying sons of bitches. Its creepy. Its like knowing that after confiscating your marijuana, your local sheriff went and smoked it with his pals. Its just not right.

What other sorts of lies has Quigon told? Maybe he lied about that vacation he took a few months ago... and instead of cruising the nude beaches on Alderan, he was on that ocean planet ordering a new clone army under the name Jedi Master Cyfodius.

[Despondent]

Actually it was supposed to be Sly fox Dias, but that would have been TOO obvious.

[Storm]

Luke never told C-3PO that he was giving him away to Jabba the Hut. C-3PO may be an irritating character, but he still deserved better than that. Everything Obi-Wan Kenobi said to Luke in ANH was pretty much a lie. The whole Jedi order is full of damnable liars.

[Despondent]

So the least damnable of all then is Darth "I am your father" Vader? And his creation C3PO is so honest because that's the way he was raised! Excellent.

[TruJade]

How is this any differnt from when
a parent lies to their chilld about
where babies come from or

why grandma died
To spare the trauma
and unessceary akward moments

as long as possible.
These are what white lies are all about
no one gets hurt

Quigon didn't lie to hurt Anakin,
he just hid the truth for awhile

[Sailor Abbey]

He hid the truth with a big fat lie. Parents are just people - they’re allowed to make shit up to keep their kids safe or from throwing tantrums in public.

Quigon is a Jedi Knight - a champion of Truth, Justice and Democracy... or whatever. He’s not a parent and he’s not some average guy - he's a spiritual warrior/leader and a HUGE role model. He does NOT need to be lying to little kids.

Instead of saying ‘I’m checking your blood for infections,’ he could have avoided lying by saying something as simple as 'I’m just doing a blood test.'

oo - that was hard.

[barend]

How is this any differnt from when
a parent lies to their chilld about
where babies come from or

why grandma died
To spare the trauma
and unessceary akward moments

as long as possible.
These are what white lies are all about
no one gets hurt

Quigon didn't lie to hurt Anakin,
he just hid the truth for awhile

reminds me of the Mad Magazine satire of Return of the Jedi with the "certain point of view" conversation.

Lube: "you said the boogie man killed my father"
Oldie: "you must remember Lube, you were only 5 when i told you that"

[TruJade]

Oh Abbey this is just gonna

lead me to a previous dicussion
on how Qui-Gon is actually Anakins father

and was just doing the song and dance
with Shmi to keep up appeareances.

The again you can also agrue
that the reason he dies is because
he lied to Anakin and The Force was mad

[parcelbombsmurf]

I agree that there is precedent in Episodes IV-VI that Jedis occasionally mince words. The best example would be Obi-Wan telling Luke that Darth Vader killed his father. Obi-Wan must have known that saying "Darth Vader BECAME his father" would have been much more honest. So he misleads Luke about his father's nature. He does so because he believes that Luke isn't ready to hear the truth. It should also be noted that honesty is not in the Jedi code per se (like, say, in the code of the Aes Sedai from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series).

In fact, Jedis sometimes go beyond lying and straight out manipulate weak minds to advance their cause (the ol' Jedi mind trick). Qui-Gon tried to defraud Watto in Mos Espa using the Force. This, at the foundation of it, is also an attempted lie.

At any rate, I also PERSONALLY believe that honesty is not always the best policy. I believe honesty and candor should often be eschewed for greater causes. The laws of most countries fathom this principle that the truth should not always be known. One example from our legal system: most codes of evidence provide that evidence of a defendant's reputation is not admissible to show conduct in conformity therewith. In other words, a jury will rarely (because there are exceptions) hear that the criminal defendant has an enormous rap sheet. Whether you agree with this or not (one side arguing truth above all--the other side arguing that the system should ensure that defendant's are not convicted presently for past crimes), we make judgments about other people every day based on that person's track record. And it's usually a damn good indicator of future behavior. But many laws prevent this exact evidence from being used in any fashion against criminal defendants. And there are other examples of this "lack of candor" in our laws. I also believe in general that children of certain age should not be burdened with certain hard truths. There are several areas where honesty is not the best policy.

HOWEVER, while I believe Jedis should lie in some instances, I'm not sure what was gained from Qui-Gon misleading Anakin about the midichlorians. Midichlorians could be considered an infection. However, an infection has an unavoidable negative connotation, and the Force is a positive thing. In fact, we learn that the relationship between midichlorians and the Jedi is symbiotic, which is good. So Qui-Gon does in fact mislead Anakin. I don't think the dishonesty is bad per se, but what was the purpose of it? How does this protect Anakin or expedite his training?

As a possible explanation, I throw out there, without any particular support, that Jedi may learn the Force better when its application is abstract rather than scientific, when it's approached as religion rather than a science. But really, there probably is no good explanation for Qui-Gon's ruse. I don't have enough faith in Lucas to assume that any plausible answer exists. So many other aspects of the prequels can't possible have a plausible explanation. Why should this one?

To tell you the truth, I wish Qui-Gon had hidden that particular morsel from Anakin AND me, the spectator.

[Helena]

Come on - it's simply not realistic for anyone, even a Jedi, to tell the truth all the time. Presumably Qui-Gon just wanted to avoid a) having to go into a long explanation about Midichlorians (shudder) and b) disappointing Anakin if it turned out he wasn't Force-sensitive after all (anyone else miss the good old days when Jedi could just sense that sort of thing?) Personally I'm far more concerned about all the really stupid and dangerous things he does, like dragging nine-year-old kids into war zones and overlooking acts of mass murder, than I am about a harmless little white lie.

[jariten]

He also cheats Watto.

Gotta love him.

[barend]

He also cheats Watto.

Gotta love him.

yeah... why didn't he just come out and say: "gimme both your slaves or I'll cut you the poodoo in half!"

(and no i'm not being sarcastic jar, I'm agreeing with you - on the watto cheating out of)

[Despondent]

Because one wrong move and BOOOM!!!

Threepio was able to talk Luke into removing Artoo's restraining bolt. Too bad Whammy couldn't get him to convince Wat' too.