I like that sentence. Thank you for sharing.
Why are there so many Jedi?
#31
Posted 07 August 2006 - 12:05 PM
I like that sentence. Thank you for sharing.
#32
Posted 07 August 2006 - 01:21 PM
The floor boards were force senstive. They were made out of thousands of watto heads.
#33
Posted 07 August 2006 - 01:29 PM
Be it tens of thousands of Jedi or a dozen, saying that the Jedi would have no impact on a galaxy is like saying the Pope or Mother Theresa had no impact on the world as a whole. We all know that to be nonsense because no matter what belief you are or lack thereof, everyone knows the reputations of the Pope, Mother Theresa, Ghandi, etc., and the contributions they have made for society have been felt by all. Jedi in the galaxy would be like this. Even though they may not be all strung out in the galaxy, I would believe that their reputation of powers and mysticism would carry weight with other planets. Would their reputation enforce laws, heck no. But their reputation would carry a certain amount of fear that if the Jedis had to come to your area, you would know you were pretty screwed.
#34
Posted 07 August 2006 - 01:40 PM
The Jedi were unique to every other creature/race/Order in the galaxy. They would have made a lot of friends and enemies... therefore, whether for better or worse, their empact on the galaxy would have been considerable. Especially the organization of the Old & New Republics. And they influenced the Empire also. Their secular-humanist philosophy is somewhat of a counterattack on the spiritualism that the Jedi spread.
#35
Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:38 PM
I agree with this...if you go by what we were told of the Jedi and what was hinted at in the OT, the Jedi were powerful enough that only a relative few of them would be all that was needed to impact the affairs of the galaxy. The PT drastically downgraded their effectiveness by turning them into flippy cheerleaders with glowsticks and not much else. The OT, at its best, portrayed the Sith and Jedi's powers being far more vast than just being able to chope shit up with a laser sword. Between their wisdom and being able to literally influence people's thoughts, it's not a stretch to think that even just having a few Jedi on most of the major systems would definitely help guide what the Republic could and couldn't do.
#36
Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:42 PM
That's not remotely the same thing. Obviously I'm not saying it isn't possible for an individual to make a big impact in some situations, but the people you mentioned are some of the most influential figures in the whole of human history. Unless the Jedi are all of the same calibre as Ghandi or Mother Teresa, which is fantastically unlikely, the vast majority of them are not going to have anything like as much influence as those people did.
As for their powers, just think about Obi-Wan - a wise, experienced and powerful Jedi, but he couldn't even stand up to Vader in a one-on-one fight. Now imagine him facing Vader and a thousand highly-trained soldiers - which would actually be far fewer than you'd expect, given the relative numbers involved, in a galactic war. No matter how you try to slice it, mathematically that ratio just does not work.
Yes, I'm afraid it is a stretch. All we really see them display in the OT is sword-fighting, quick reflexes, some fairly minor levitation and the ability to jump very high - impressive, but not nearly enough to allow any Jedi to take on more than a few opponents at once. Even the mind-control only works for a few minutes at most, and then only on the weak-minded. I'm sorry, but like I said, the mathematics of a few hundred/thousand Jedi in a galaxy of trillions simply does not work out. It would make it utterly impossible for them to carry out their main function: protecting the Republic against its enemies.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#37
Posted 07 August 2006 - 05:15 PM
I also assumed that the Emperor wanting them wiped out was more of a pre-emptive strike than anything else. Only the Jedi united could have been a powerful enough singular force (pun intended) to have the kind of effect it seems you're talking about, and yes, I assumed they were THAT powerful. I had randomly guessed that 1 Jedi was worth roughly 100 trained soldiers, so if you had had approx. 100k Jedi still running around, uniting them would be trouble for anyone they opposed since presumably they would be working with additional forces. The Emperor realized that the Jedi were the "x-factor" needed, even if there's 100k or less of them, to make his takeover unlikely, so he takes them by surprise. Of course, none of this played out like that, and instead we have too few Jedi who don't seem very powerful.
Again, this was all presumption on my part. I think the movies would have been better if they had played up this idea more in the PT. The Jedi need to be very powerful for them to only be a relative few, or they need to be at least millions of them. The PT dropped the ball with both ideas.
This post has been edited by MyPantsAreOnFire: 07 August 2006 - 05:23 PM
#38
Posted 07 August 2006 - 06:58 PM
Personally, I have to say that I don't like the idea of these ultra-powerful Jedi at all. For me, the most interesting aspect of the Jedi is that they are basically just normal people; turning them into a bunch of over-powered Marty Stus would ruin the movies for me as surely as the actual PT did. As it is, I find it difficult to swallow some of their new PT powers which we never see in the OT.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#39
Posted 07 August 2006 - 09:47 PM
#40
Posted 08 August 2006 - 11:31 AM
Lets assume the SW galaxy is a little smaller than ours, maybe 100 billion stars. Even if there were quadrillions of Jedi (about 10,000 per star system), they wouldn't come anywhere near to 'crowding up' the galaxy. In practice we can assume that only a tiny fraction of the star systems in the galaxy are inhabited - say around 1000 - so we can assume proportionally fewer Jedi, but with an average of a few billion people per star system, you'd still need a hell of a lot. 10 million might be a more reasonable figure, though still pretty low compared to the population as a whole.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#41
Posted 08 August 2006 - 01:46 PM
#42
Posted 08 August 2006 - 05:31 PM
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#44
Posted 15 August 2006 - 12:04 AM
Also Luke basically does this by using suprise and creating complete chaos. There is no suggestion that Luke could defeat Jabba's henchmen in a straight up fight, where the latter had some idea what was going on and what they were doing. So I see the Jedi not really as being able to use "magic", but to get inside the heads of their opponents (we also see the mind trick used twice in the OT, but it doesn't have to be that direct).
I mentioned the Wizards in Lord of the Rings. Another good place for Lucas to steal from is the Foundation series, in fact Lucas did steal extensively from Asimov. And the Second Foundation is a decent model for the Jedi order.
Anyway, you don't need that many of them. But the prequel jedi should have complemented a functioning (small "r") republican government that actually had an army, police, etc.
#45
Posted 15 August 2006 - 06:04 PM
Yes. You. Do. I'm sorry, but I'm getting so fed up of this stupid argument. It's no use comparing them to the wizards in LotR or anyone else in any other sci-fi/fantasy series, because they are not in the same situation and they do not have the same skills and powers. If the Jedi functioned mainly behind the scenes, pulling the strings in secret, you might have a point about not needing quite so many of them - but they're not portrayed remotely like that, even in the OT.
The plain fact is that the Jedi, as they are portrayed in the movies, would not be able to make any significant impact on the galaxy except in far greater numbers than the 'official' figures. I'm not going to argue this any more, because it's pointless; if you genuinely think that 10,000 Jedi spread across a galaxy of trillions makes any sense whatsoever, I guarantee you that you have not properly comprehended the numbers involved.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People