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Why are there so many Jedi?

#46 User is offline   Casual Fan Icon

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 07:28 PM

To continue this silly argument,

QUOTE
If the Jedi functioned mainly behind the scenes, pulling the strings in secret, you might have a point about not needing quite so many of them - but they're not portrayed remotely like that, even in the OT.


Maybe the Jedi aren't this way, but the Sith are. That is the only way Palaptine operates, in both the prequels and the OT. And Vadar acts directly only to confront Luke. Otherwise he is operating through Tarkin, Lando, various imperial officers. Only two Sith are needed. Are we to infer that the Sith actually are stronger than the Jedi?

Granted, I just realized that in the prequels Lucas did make it very obvious that a single Sith was more powerful than several Jedi. Another reason to dislike the prequels, I guess.

But in the OT, Yoda operates behind the scenes exclusively. OK, Obi Wan hires the Millenium Falcon, and he disables the tractor beam on the Death Star. And he confronts Vader. But he doesn't pilot the Falcon, he hires Han and Chewie to do it (aren't Jedi supposed to be excellent pilots)? Nor does he take part in the rescue of the princess.

The point is, I don't think it was in the cards that the Jedi had to be portrayed the way they did in the prequels at all. I thought it was great that two Jedi were sent to Naboo, not to rescue the princess in that case, but to negotiate. I also thought that it was great that only two Jedi were needed to resolve the situation. But things went downhill from there.
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#47 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 09:31 PM

That's kind of funny, really. The OT Jedi worked most effectively on their own.

But what this gets down to are the ramblings of an old man (and well acted by AG).
The story doesn't add up.



Marcia wrote George into a corner.
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#48 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Casual Fan @ Aug 16 2006, 01:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To continue this silly argument,
Maybe the Jedi aren't this way, but the Sith are. That is the only way Palaptine operates, in both the prequels and the OT. And Vadar acts directly only to confront Luke. Otherwise he is operating through Tarkin, Lando, various imperial officers. Only two Sith are needed. Are we to infer that the Sith actually are stronger than the Jedi?

No, we are to infer that the Sith have entirely different objectives. The Jedi want to protect the Republic, whereas Palpatine wants to undermine it and ultimately seize absolute power; of course his methods are completely different. If he'd tried a full-scale military assault, even with thousands or millions of followers, it almost certainly wouldn't have worked (that is, if the PT Republic had been portrayed in anything resembling a sensible manner). A Jedi could probably have done the same thing as he did, but then they wouldn't be a Jedi any more; the whole point about the Jedi is that they are defenders of the weak, not tyrants seeking personal power at everyone else's expense.

Vader and Palpatine can cope by themselves in the OT because there's virtually no one left to oppose them; that was the whole point of the Jedi purge. As for Yoda and Obi-Wan, they work 'behind the scenes' only in the sense that they're in hiding and therefore have to lie low most of the time. And even with that in mind, Obi-Wan still ends up openly confronting Vader!

I'll agree with you on one thing: the way the Jedi are portrayed in the PT is ridiculous. However, I'm afraid that wanting them to be this tiny little group of super-powerful, super-influential beings is equally ridiculous. Even if they worked mainly as spies or something, you'd still need a hell of a lot more than 10,000 of them to be any use - and then, what would be the use of the sword-fighting and levitation which seems to make up 90% of their training? From the little I know about real-life espionage, I'm pretty sure that combat is not a major part of it; if you're a spy and you're getting into situations where you need to use lightsabers and Force powers, you haven't been doing your job properly.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#49 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 02:24 AM

QUOTE (Helena @ Aug 16 2006, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for Yoda and Obi-Wan, they work 'behind the scenes' only in the sense that they're in hiding and therefore have to lie low most of the time.

Sure thing - if calling himself "Ben" Kenobi rather than Obi-wan, wearing Jedi robes and settling near your mortal enemy home village can be regarded as lying low and hiding wink.gif

QUOTE (Helena @ Aug 16 2006, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From the little I know about real-life espionage, I'm pretty sure that combat is not a major part of it; if you're a spy and you're getting into situations where you need to use lightsabers and Force powers, you haven't been doing your job properly.

laugh.gif
Star port official on Korriban:
"I can see you are a Jedi"
"How do you know that"
"Because you are wearing your lightsabre"

Nope, sorry, Jedi as spies is not a very good idea indeed.
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#50 User is offline   Cobnat Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 02:45 AM

I dont know wether someone said this or not (I cant be bothered looking it up) but since the force is in your blood maybe the Jedis had a massive orgy and started breading between episodes?
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#51 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:34 AM

QUOTE (Madam Corvax @ Aug 17 2006, 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure thing - if calling himself "Ben" Kenobi rather than Obi-wan, wearing Jedi robes and settling near your mortal enemy home village can be regarded as lying low and hiding wink.gif

Good point. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
laugh.gif
Star port official on Korriban:
"I can see you are a Jedi"
"How do you know that"
"Because you are wearing your lightsabre"

From my own KotOR parody, the 'infiltrating the Sith base on Manaan' scene:

QUOTE
They enter the base. A female Sith SECURITY OFFICER looks at them with deep suspicion.

SECURITY OFFICER: How did you get in here?

RGN: Through the door.

SECURITY OFFICER (witheringly): Very funny. You’re Republic spies, aren’t you?

RGN: Hang on, what makes you think that?

SECURITY OFFICER: Well, firstly, four of you are clearly Jedi. And secondly, you (to CARTH) are wearing armour with Republic markings.

RGN: Okay, so maybe we could have planned this better...

QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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