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Palpatine Wielding A Lightsaber Males No Sense.... Especially if GL Made the Sith Master More Than A One Trick Pony

#1 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 05:57 PM

Palpatine using a lightsaber to duel makes no sense, especially if he's the Sith Master and the baddest baddie in the Galaxy. His taking down the three Jedi in a non-fight in his chamber didn't justify him having one, nor his confrontation with Mace before he lost it. Using it in a duel against Yoda was silly as well. It showed that GL didn't think things through AGAIn and instead feature Palpatine having a number of other powers and tricks up his sleeve. The lightsaber only makes sense if the ANH super special edition released one day in the future has Obi Wan telling Luke "and here is something your GRANDFATHER would have wanted you to have, HIS lightsaber, in case you want a contrast with your father's BLUE one....."
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#2 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 08:22 PM

I agree. Neither Yoda nor Palpatine should have had sabers.
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#3 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 10:38 PM

I remember when it came out Yoda would actually be fighting in Episode II, I pictured him doing something cool like using the Force to wield, like, 6 sabres at once, never having to actually physically do anything himself...he was just SO powerful and in tune with the Force he could be hurling things about, tearing down walls, have the sabres flying around, fighting a bunch of guys at the same time...but instead we got the hyperactive Keebler elf. Weak.
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#4 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 12:16 AM

Did anybody complain when the Emperor's evil clone (is that redundant?) in Dark Empire and Dark Empire II used a lightsaber?

Or did they get upset in the Jedi Knight novel when it explicitly said that Yoda had a lightsaber? (this was also mentioned in other sources like Star Wars: Behind the Magic, IIRC and the SW Visual Dictionary).

So why would it be not be silly for these guys to have lightsabers, but not use them?

No offense, but I can buy Yoda "hanging up his [Lightsaber]" after giving up the ways of war, and then being dragged out of retirement to train the young upstart, or Palpatine letting his blade get dusty for years of overconfidence after all his enemies are thought dead... but the idea that they would simply be incapable of using one? Even so, where was the protest over the EU's implication that these guys did in fact know how to saber duel with the best of them, long before the Prequels showed us as much?

(and also, the idea of old fogies being unable to fight energetically was dispelled by AOTC, but I suppose you could blame it for that idea... which makes Lucas' explanation of the ANH duel being "slow" by prequel standards seem silly now)

This post has been edited by KurganX: 06 July 2006 - 12:18 AM

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#5 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Jul 6 2006, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did anybody complain when the Emperor's evil clone (is that redundant?) in Dark Empire and Dark Empire II used a lightsaber?

Or did they get upset in the Jedi Knight novel when it explicitly said that Yoda had a lightsaber? (this was also mentioned in other sources like Star Wars: Behind the Magic, IIRC and the SW Visual Dictionary).


Never read them. If ain't in a movie, it didn't happen.

QUOTE
So why would it be not be silly for these guys to have lightsabers, but not use them?

No offense, but I can buy Yoda "hanging up his [Lightsaber]" after giving up the ways of war, and then being dragged out of retirement to train the young upstart, or Palpatine letting his blade get dusty for years of overconfidence after all his enemies are thought dead... but the idea that they would simply be incapable of using one? Even so, where was the protest over the EU's implication that these guys did in fact know how to saber duel with the best of them, long before the Prequels showed us as much?


It was a letdown because Lucas had already set up the idea that these guys were "beyond" such simple means of combat. Yoda in ESB seems truly at one with the Force...everything around could be a defensive weapon if need be. A lightsabre would be a downgrade for him. And in ROTJ, Palp's using the lightning, at the time, was incredible. I remember being MUCH more impressed with that than guys swinging a laser sword around. Lucas screwed it up himself by deciding to "downgrade" the Force lightning power in the later films, but when it first showed up, it seemed massively powerful and pretty much unstoppable, and something only a few Jedis, dark or otherwise, would be able to master.

Both of these guys having to use lightsabres is like someone with a tank having to get out and fight with their pistol.
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#6 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 11:02 AM

"Wars make not one great." Remember that? Does that sound like a guy who would jump around like a little green monkey with a lightsaber? No, it sounds like a wise guru who is one with the force, but also knows how to kick ass with his mind when people start fucking around.

In my mind, there are no prequels. Everything before ANH is speculative history that will dominate my imagination forever!
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#7 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 01:26 PM

It's like having two entities who can teleport themselves, featured together in a car chase because car chases are kewl.
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#8 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE
"Wars make not one great." Remember that? Does that sound like a guy who would jump around like a little green monkey with a lightsaber?


Exactly, only a mere 20 years ago!! In human scale terms, that's less than two years for an 80 year old man! It's pure BULLSHIT to me that only in the last few years of his life, Yoda would suddenly say, "Oh, war is bad, better not use my saber anymore..."

This is something he should've realized CENTURIES AGO!!!! Yoda should be the master who is above it all!! In the PT's he's far too concerned with the war and politics, and yadayadayadayoda... when he should focus attention on his "religion"--to a true believer, and comparing it to some hardcore Christians (not knocking them here), this is all that matters, their beliefs, not the material/physical world---and Yoda says as much in ESB. Where is the bloody confusion on this.

Of course, this is all before PT's transformed the Jedi into superwarriors chosen by the number of icky-things in their body, making the 'religion' aspect of the Force fully void and null!

In the end, Yoda's presence in the PT should've been minimized or not at all. And if he's in it minimally, it should reveal the power he possesses as a master, not a swordsman, because he's above and beyond that, and Palpatine should be the evil reflection of that.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 06 July 2006 - 01:38 PM

Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#9 User is offline   Weezer12 Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 01:53 PM

Curtis, check your PM's.

This post has been edited by Weezer12: 06 July 2006 - 01:54 PM

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#10 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE
...but the idea that they would simply be incapable of using one?


Not that they are incapable. More that they just don't need to anymore. It's beneath them.
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#11 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 03:19 PM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Jul 6 2006, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did anybody complain when the Emperor's evil clone (is that redundant?) in Dark Empire and Dark Empire II used a lightsaber?


You proved how the novels suck just as much as the PT with that one question. devil.gif
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#12 User is offline   Azrael23 Icon

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 01:42 AM

QUOTE (CowboyCurtis @ Jul 6 2006, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Exactly, only a mere 20 years ago!! In human scale terms, that's less than two years for an 80 year old man! It's pure BULLSHIT to me that only in the last few years of his life, Yoda would suddenly say, "Oh, war is bad, better not use my saber anymore..."

This is something he should've realized CENTURIES AGO!!!! Yoda should be the master who is above it all!! In the PT's he's far too concerned with the war and politics, and yadayadayadayoda... when he should focus attention on his "religion"--to a true believer, and comparing it to some hardcore Christians (not knocking them here), this is all that matters, their beliefs, not the material/physical world---and Yoda says as much in ESB. Where is the bloody confusion on this.

Of course, this is all before PT's transformed the Jedi into superwarriors chosen by the number of icky-things in their body, making the 'religion' aspect of the Force fully void and null!

In the end, Yoda's presence in the PT should've been minimized or not at all. And if he's in it minimally, it should reveal the power he possesses as a master, not a swordsman, because he's above and beyond that, and Palpatine should be the evil reflection of that.


CowboyCurtis

I've heard some prequel supporters reason that Yoda and Obi-Wans views on the Force
changed dramatically over those years in hiding. It would appear that things such as The
Clone Wars, The Jedi Purge, The Empire forming and Anakin's fall changed their outlook on
war and the Force. When Qui-Gon had mastered surviving after death and Yoda then became
his student. If you look at the age they started training Luke and the fact Luke had
many attachments showed that their outlooks changed, they had a very long time to reflect on
what wnet wrong with Anakin's training and perhaps they didn't want that to repeat when they trained Luke. You could consider that possibility.

I do agree that neither Yoda or Sidious should have used Lightsabers, but perhaps Lucas was only giving the fanboys what they really wanted, instead of these feats elevating both it drastically down graded them as they should both be beyond that form of combat, especially Yoda.
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#13 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 08:28 AM

QUOTE (Azrael23 @ Jul 7 2006, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've heard some prequel supporters reason that Yoda and Obi-Wans views on the Force
changed dramatically over those years in hiding. It would appear that things such as The
Clone Wars, The Jedi Purge, The Empire forming and Anakin's fall changed their outlook on
war and the Force. When Qui-Gon had mastered surviving after death and Yoda then became
his student. If you look at the age they started training Luke and the fact Luke had
many attachments showed that their outlooks changed, they had a very long time to reflect on
what wnet wrong with Anakin's training and perhaps they didn't want that to repeat when they trained Luke. You could consider that possibility.


I dont support the storytelling technique of major character and plot changes coming after the movie is over, which has become standard for the PT and ROTJ.

"Anakin is a great pilot, but all his Top Gun stuff came in between the movies"

"The Rebels are strong again, but their comeback came in between the movies"

I could go on and on.....
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#14 User is offline   Azrael23 Icon

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 11:00 AM

QUOTE (georgelucas4greedo @ Jul 7 2006, 08:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I dont support the storytelling technique of major character and plot changes coming after the movie is over, which has become standard for the PT and ROTJ.

"Anakin is a great pilot, but all his Top Gun stuff came in between the movies"

"The Rebels are strong again, but their comeback came in between the movies"

I could go on and on.....


I agree with you there. Its as if all the relevant stuff takes place "supposedly" off screen
but we are given things that are frankly not important in the films and, the list goes on. I also don't buy the Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to learn immortality after he died, its just an example of Lucas running out of time because he didn't care enough to come up with a valid reason as to how a Jedi can live on through the force, especially considering Qui-Gon didn't vanish upon death.

This post has been edited by Azrael23: 07 July 2006 - 11:00 AM

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