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New Ideas for ROTJ I'll give you mine

#16 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 11:09 AM

But after ESB, the rebellion was supposed to be in its "last throes,"

Yeah, I think you're right. They seemed rag-tag desperate at that point, which makes sense, since they're hiding out on a bum-ass world like Hoth.

But I covered for this in my rewrite of ROTJ crawl where it says that many worlds have left the Empire and rallied to the rebels' side.

And, since all of these worlds have joined, it has strained the Empire's resources and the fleet as well. So, this gives the rebels and advantage and small window to strike at the Empire before it gears up and makes it own broad attacks.

But you brought up a good point.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 16 June 2006 - 11:10 AM

Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#17 User is offline   Weezer12 Icon

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 11:19 PM

Hmm..so will you have Lando wipe out one Defense Sphere, Rogue Squadron another one, and the Rebels taking over another? What about the Executor colliding with the third?

Maybe you could have the Rebels hijack the third, turn it on the Executor, which causes it to dive into the third. Then the Rebels use the time they have from the Executor drifting towards the sphere to make it back to the hangar and flee the ship, along with Luke...?
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#18 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 11:24 PM

Hmm..so will you have Lando wipe out one Defense Sphere, Rogue Squadron another one, and the Rebels taking over another? What about the Executor colliding with the third?

Yeah, I think that was one of the ideas I had. smile.gif


Maybe you could have the Rebels hijack the third, turn it on the Executor, which causes it to dive into the third.

Yeah, you could do that.

Then the Rebels use the time they have from the Executor drifting towards the sphere to make it back to the hangar and flee the ship, along with Luke...?

Luke is on the Executor?
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#19 User is offline   Weezer12 Icon

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 04:28 PM

No, he's on the third Death Star.
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#20 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 05:31 PM

Okay, I understand now.

Would Leia and Han be part of the rebel band that rescues Luke?

See, one of the problems I have with ROTJ is that in ANH, the heroes go through hell to rescue each other, and then in ESB, they do all they can to rescue each other. Luke goes to save them.

Why isn't this attempted in ROTJ? I mean, Luke had just saved Han's life on Tatooine, you'd think Han would feel a bit of gratitude and go get him.

Just thinking out loud.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#21 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 04:13 AM

QUOTE
But I covered for this in my rewrite of ROTJ crawl where it says that many worlds have left the Empire and rallied to the rebels' side.


This would make sense. How many of the other worlds, who were kept in line through fear, see what happened to Alderaan, and figure they had nothing to lose by joining the rebellion, or at least, causing trouble for the Empire?

Love the idea that Luke is the son of Vader, and that Leia is the daughter of Skywalker, by the way. Does this mean that Vader DID kill Skywalker, whoever s/he was?
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#22 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 07:36 AM

Exactly, Vader did kill Skywalker, thus making Obi-Wan an honest Jedi (which I believed from the beginning, and was backed up with that notion by the novelisation, so as you can guess, I was infuriated with the "certain point of view" bullcrap).
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#23 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE (Weezer12 @ Jun 18 2006, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, he's on the third Death Star.



Didnt see that one coming. Whaaaaa?

QUOTE (CowboyCurtis @ Jun 16 2006, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But after ESB, the rebellion was supposed to be in its "last throes,"

Yeah, I think you're right. They seemed rag-tag desperate at that point, which makes sense, since they're hiding out on a bum-ass world like Hoth.

But I covered for this in my rewrite of ROTJ crawl where it says that many worlds have left the Empire and rallied to the rebels' side.

And, since all of these worlds have joined, it has strained the Empire's resources and the fleet as well. So, this gives the rebels and advantage and small window to strike at the Empire before it gears up and makes it own broad attacks.

But you brought up a good point.



If this is true, then the Empire has to be even more ruthless this time around. Senseless killing, torture, destruction, totalatarianism to the maximum....the kind of stuff that forces planets to "slip through fingers."

I trust you can account for that Sir Curtis, you sound pretty on the ball

This post has been edited by georgelucas4greedo: 19 June 2006 - 10:16 AM

It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#24 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 08:45 PM

Thanks. I'm trying to come up with a script that pleases me as a fan and also try to remain to true to the Star Wars sensibility.

And, I am thinking that the Empire would really be hardcore in ROTJ, which is what we all wanted, right? smile.gif
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#25 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 06:36 AM

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I was infuriated with the "certain point of view" bullcrap.


Cowboy Curtis, you were NOT the only one!

My problems with RotJ were as follows:

1. So much time in Jabba's court, and not even trying to negotiate with the big slug. Surely they could have figured out SOMETHING to rescue Han? How about Leia just posing as a rich, eccentric art collector, offering big bucks for Jabba's wallhanging? And what the hell were those bits with droid torture? Jeez.

2. The Sarlacc - when I first saw it, I got the giggles, REAL BAD about the asshole in the desert.

3. Who had time to explain to Han that Lando didn't REALLY mean to turn him over for torture and then guinea pig duties? Honestly, exactly how FORGIVING can you realistically expect someone who went through what Han did?

4. Boba Fett, the big, bad bounty hunter who did not have that much to do in ESB is fed to the asshole in the desert - by accident. One of my buddies (who was giggling so hard he almost wet himself about the Sarlacc belch) speculated that perhaps a steel plated hemorrhoidal suppository was NOT what the Dr. Sarlacc ordered.

5. The ambiguity of Mon Mothma's position in the Rebel Alliance - I know the EU makes HER out to be the supreme leader of the Alliance, but then, why all the fuss over Leia in Star Wars, then? Plus, why doesn't any of this set up stink to the Rebel powers that be... Palpatine himself is going to be on the new death star, and there are all sorts of vulnerabilities that the Rebels could conveniently exploit.

6. Yoda's death - CORNY! He waits for Luke to return, and dies, making sure he has meaningful last words? Urgh! With the exception of the line, "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!" I LOATHED this scene. Perhaps if Yoda had used that line, he might have gotten through Anakin's thick skull about death.

7. Obi Wan's speech about the "Certain point of view." Okay, so George changed his mind about what was going on in the story. Could he have come up with something LESS LAME than that choice of words? Alec Guiness looked embarrassed to be delivering that line.

8. Twin sister - Luke miraculously comes to the conclusion that Obi Wan is referring to Leia. I felt bad for Mark Hamill to be stuck in that scene, because, what other conclusion could he draw? There WERE NO OTHER major female characters! Plus, as many others have stated, this feels tacked on, last minute tacked on.

9. Generals - why can't anyone be promoted to Captain, Major, or Colonel? Does George really like the sound of General that much?

10. Speeder bike chase - Han seemed to have gotten his act together somewhat in ESB, not such an impulsive hothead, and now he is doing incredibly stupid things and causing trouble. Would it really have been all that tough for him to do something to scout out how many of those troopers there were, and cause a diversion to draw them away from their bikes, so it would not be such a pain to catch them? I checked my watch at least a dozen times during this scene, trying to figure out when it was going to end. For all that Luke and Leia seem to have gone dozens of miles into the forest, it did not take Luke too long to find his way back. I can buy that he used the Force to guide him back to camp. But why didn't anyone think to use a secured comm link to keep in contact, and make sure they were all right?

11. Trap - Chewie's IQ seems to have taken a serious hit in this movie, too. Did he and Han contract some sort of brain eating parasite while locked in Jabba's dungeon? "Great, Chewie, always thinking with your stomach." Uh, the Wookies are an intelligent, sentient race, wouldn't it strike someone of Chewie's age and intelligence that it was a baited trap?

12. Ewoks - I agree that it is, in theory, pretty damned cool to have a primitive people take on a technologically superior force and pull off a win. When it is done right, (think General Custer's defeat) it is pretty awe inspiring and even frightening. The damned Ewoks, however, were just TOO cute. A battle between waddling teddy bears and the worst soldiers in the known universe is just a waste of celluloid. Plus, can you imagine the trauma of any stormtrooper survivors, to have their asses handed to them by teddy bears running amok?

13. Emperor - At some points, he did seem quite menacing and manipulative. You start getting a pretty good idea why Anakin fell to the dark side. But why was there no mention of the name Anakin before RotJ? He was always "your father" or "my father" to Luke, as well as the audience. The exchanges between Palpatine and Luke seemed forced. "Soon, I'll be dead, and you with me." Oh, please! And that cackle, gads, tone it down a bit, you're supposed to be projecting EVIL not stereotypical Hollywood madness. Would it hurt anyone in Hollywood to get a grip and not make people who are mentally ill or unbalanced into drooling, giggling idiots? I think the subtle, menacing evil of a Hannibal Lecter type would have made the Emperor a lot scarier, and I think Ian McDiarmid could have carried that off very well. He would have been evil AND terrifying at the same time. "Wellll, Luke, have the Ewoks stopped screaming?"

14. Force (?) lightning - again, the idiocy of the PT rears its ugly head. According to AotC and RotS, Yoda knew all about this particular power, and successfully blocked it, a DEFENSIVE move, not aggressively or angrily. Knowing this, he didn't bother warning Luke (neither did Obi Wan, who dealt with it in Clones) about ANY method of defense. Yoda apparently was able to collect it, in his bare hands, as a ball of lightning in RotS, and hurl it back at Palpatine, sending him ass over teakettle across the room. Not Luke, the human lightning rod. Luke had tossed aside his lightsaber, as an act of defiance against Palpatine, refusing to fight his own father, under Palpatine's rules.

15. Vader's betrayal - now don't get me wrong, this was actually the most powerful aspect of Vader/Anakin's redemption. Why did Palps seem so surprised that it could happen? He was babbling openly in front of Vader about Luke being his new apprentice, and commanding Luke to strike Vader down to take Vader's place at his side. Even though Vader did not speak in this scene, Dave Prowse's body language conveyed his torn loyalty beautifully in this scene. I agree wholeheartedly with Chefelf, Dave's face should have been under the mask when Luke took it off.

16. The puke inducing sappy ending. Yeah, I wanted a happy ending, I'm American, and this is what we are led to expect, through all TV shows, movies, plays, books, stories, etc. I would have wanted one that was a lot more satisfying, is all, but what could have satisfied, I really can't say.

Cowboy Curtis, you have your hands full with your rewrite of RotJ. I can't wait to see it!
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#26 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:32 AM

Yeah, I know. I'll cover all of those issues, same ones which bug me.

I think I'm going to do novel style writing, and put it up in "chapters" on my blog site. I think I could handle that and not feel overwhelmed. I've got a pretty good outline now, and I'm constantly looking at other fans' ideas and thoughts.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#27 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:42 AM

QUOTE (CowboyCurtis @ Jun 20 2006, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, I know. I'll cover all of those issues, same ones which bug me.

I think I'm going to do novel style writing, and put it up in "chapters" on my blog site. I think I could handle that and not feel overwhelmed. I've got a pretty good outline now, and I'm constantly looking at other fans' ideas and thoughts.


If you are making Luke go back to Dagobah to complete his training, I have a good scene for you.
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#28 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 10:15 AM

Lay it on me. smile.gif
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#29 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:08 AM

The scene is inspired from an anecdote from my Taoism professor and it fit perfectly since the whole training was heavily based on Eastern culture. The central idea is based on the Taoist belief that one must go back to his or her roots, his or her early stage of development, and then grow healthily. Unlearn what you have learned in a nut shell.


Luke is sweaty and exhausted. His training is clearly grueling. He then attempts to lift a bolder and fails. He soon discovers he cannot use the force at all. He is weak. He gets a fever. He then passes out from exhaustion. When he awakes, he is a Jedi Knight. He can lift any thing. His mind is clear. He is prepared to take on the Empire.

Of course the details suck, becuase I'm at work and I cant really develop this out. But, hey, I'm the idea guy!
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#30 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:34 AM

I like that. I'll include it. smile.gif
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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