[J m HofMarN]

There are a lot of questions swirling about what should be done at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Some favor further imprisonment. Others favor executions. Still others want to see that nothing is done at all. I think an even handed approach is necessary.

It's been noted in articles* that elements within the prison are comitting what some wussies call "acts of war". But I don't see it like that. I think that fighting back in a non harmful (or if necessary harmful) way against people who are quite clearly evil is completely acceptable, even to be applauded. Those who are in Guantanamo bay and have necessitated such actions are hardened criminals and must be kept away from society.

So I propose that a multinational prison camp be set up, but without the death penalty, where those responsible for such things can be safely kept, preferably in solitary confinement, under acceptable conditions according to Geneva, for the rest of their natural lives.

Those who are responsible for instigating so much terror, the ring leaders I mean, who are found to have ordered it, I think that hanging would not be ruled out in those cases, and I would certainly endorse a penalty of death for that. I think it would only be decent.

As for the detainees though, I think they should be offered reparations as well as physical and psychological therapy and then released to whichever country they feel they would be safest in.

* http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/5068606.stm

So yes, my even handed approach may not be showing up any time soon. Frankly the only chance of what I'd like to see is if the US empire were magically defeated and people like Bush and Rumsfeld were put on trial for their sundry sins. But, in that dream reality, I would love to be in the crowd that was throwing refuse, bricks and feces at this prick bastard who claimed that the deaths of detainees that US torturers forced into suicide were, in some way, acts of terrorism.

[Sailor Abbey]

Frankly the only chance of what I'd like to see is if the US empire were magically defeated and people like Bush and Rumsfeld were put on trial for their sundry sins. But, in that dream reality, I would love to be in the crowd that was throwing refuse, bricks and feces at this prick bastard who claimed that the deaths of detainees that US torturers forced into suicide were, in some way, acts of terrorism.

Hey if you don’t want to end up being a prisoner of war and getting treated like shit in prison, don’t go to war. Its part of the deal.

Its not like any other countries follow the Geneva convention. We could hook peoples molars up to car batteries and blow their teeth out of their head. Instead we do stupid shit like make prisoners wear underwear on their head and let dogs bark at them. So a few prisoners get the shit beat out of em - they probably had it coming. And I bet both Bush and Rummy personally directed prisoners to be treated like crap too. Those rascals.

[Deepsycher]

I recently seen that. Just to point out, how about the case with Gary McKinnon. He didn't kill nobody. Maybe it is right for him to be deported to be tried in America. If someone crosses a line and it was the responsibility of the inside people to protect that line, obviously they failed in their part to protect their own network, who's fault is it?

I mean how can they prove their claims about the damages caused, was it hardware of software? I didn't see them mentioning what kind of damage. It sounds exaggerated unless they are talking about damages to their loss of works.

Yet they class him as a terrorist and want to send him to Gauntanamo Bay. Not like he started a physical war to get into buildings with the interest of destroying it and killing people. They could be partially responsible for letting the intrusion happen in first place. So rather than admitting that they have weaknesses to work on, they blame people for what they can't handle, compare their actions to terrorists and prohibit them.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 12 June 2006 - 08:59 AM

[Dr Lecter]

I don't really see the point of Guantanamo Bay anymore, it used to be a place where they could torture... oh sorry, the politically correct defination: "hold them without trial, without charges, without a lawyer, for as long as they want, beat the shit out of them, and make them pose is various homosexual positions at gun point". Without the American constitution getting in the way.

But now, America has no constitution, so what's the point in keeping it off American soil now?

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 12 June 2006 - 11:18 AM

[J m HofMarN]

Hey if you don’t want to end up being a prisoner of war and getting treated like shit in prison, don’t go to war. Its part of the deal.

So you're saying that when US storm troopers invade other countries people should just lay down and bow to their rightful rulers for fear of being tortured if they're caught fighting back? That does sound like typical US policy.

Its not like any other countries follow the Geneva convention.

Third world countries lacking democracy and understanding of the importance of human life might not, but in a country which is supposedly a republic where leaders are accountable for preserving their nation's reputation you would expect people to be treated better. And I believe that pretty much all of Western Europe and Canada have never had problems following Geneva since WW2.

Instead we do stupid shit like make prisoners wear underwear on their head and let dogs bark at them.

And keep them in cages, force them to strip naked for days at a time, beat them to death, leave them exposed to the elements until they die, strike them repeatedly, hang them from the cieling by their arms ( a tactic invented by our friends, the Zionist dogs) and other such lovable and harmless college pranks. There's a reason why the UN and Amnesty International have all said that what the US does is torture.

So a few prisoners get the shit beat out of em - they probably had it coming.

So a few Gays get the shit beat out of them and you figure they probably had it coming

and then a few Muslims get the shit beat out of them and you figure they probably had it coming

and then a few leftists get the shit beat out of them and you figure they probably had it coming

And then when they decide it's time to beat the shit out of people who are named Sailor Abbey, well, since you buried your head in the sand and accepted the attrocities the government commits you really will have it coming.

And I bet both Bush and Rummy personally directed prisoners to be treated like crap too.

If they're not responsible for it why did they try to prevent congress from passing legislation against the use of torture? Do you really think that these are just silly pranks by individual soldiers? If so why do they occur in three different countries (probably more if you count secret torture facilities across eastern Europe) and by completely unrelated persons? There is a pattern of torture instigated from the top down. Ordinary soldiers are following their orders but when they get caught they're the ones sacrificed for the sake of saving the last shreds of America's image.

[Sailor Abbey]

So you're saying that when US storm troopers invade other countries people should just lay down and bow to their rightful rulers for fear of being tortured if they're caught fighting back? That does sound like typical US policy.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Third world countries lacking democracy and understanding of the importance of human life might not, but in a country which is supposedly a republic where leaders are accountable for preserving their nation's reputation you would expect people to be treated better.

I don’t really see how they are treated so poorly. Thy’re prisoners of war, their supposed to be having a shitty time - they’re not on vacation for christsakes.

And keep them in cages, force them to strip naked for days at a time, beat them to death, leave them exposed to the elements until they die, strike them repeatedly, hang them from the cieling by their arms ( a tactic invented by our friends, the Zionist dogs) and other such lovable and harmless college pranks. There's a reason why the UN and Amnesty International have all said that what the US does is torture.

Oh boo hoo. People get beat to death in prisons all over the world. Get over it.

So a few Gays get the shit beat out of them and you figure they probably had it coming
and then a few Muslims get the shit beat out of them and you figure they probably had it coming
and then a few leftists get the shit beat out of them and you figure they probably had it coming
And then when they decide it's time to beat the shit out of people who are named Sailor Abbey, well, since you buried your head in the sand and accepted the attrocities the government commits you really will have it coming.

Look, these people fought against us and they lost. If you dont want to risk getting the shit beat out of you in prison by pissed off Americans, dont fight against us. Its a pretty simple concept. If I decide I hate America and go join Al Qaeda and some American soldier capture me, I guess I'll get whats coming to me.

If they're not responsible for it why did they try to prevent congress from passing legislation against the use of torture?

Whats wrong with a little torture here and there. Its a useful tool.

Do you really think that these are just silly pranks by individual soldiers?

I really dont care either way.

There is a pattern of torture instigated from the top down.

Good.

Ordinary soldiers are following their orders but when they get caught they're the ones sacrificed for the sake of saving the last shreds of America's image.

That part is pretty fucked up, I will agree with you.

[Dr Lecter]

I don’t really see how they are treated so poorly. Thy’re prisoners of war, their supposed to be having a shitty time - they’re not on vacation for christsakes.

If you think POWs are suppose to be having a shitty time, obviously you never heard of how well the German WWII POWs were treated here. Hell, the Nazis treated British and other allied POWs better than the Americans are treating people in Guantanamo Bay. Anyway, now all the prisonners in Guantanamo Bay are POWs anyway. Many of them are what might be called political prisoners.

[barend]

Guantanamo Bay, what should be done?

well, for starters, they should build their own photolab

[Deepsycher]

Photolab:

Yes then they can make them for erotic magazines. I think the staff will have the most decorations. It could then be called Contaminated Bay.


Do you think that there could be any relation to Alcatraz?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 12 June 2006 - 08:08 PM

[J m HofMarN]

Look, these people fought against us and they lost. If you dont want to risk getting the shit beat out of you in prison by pissed off Americans, dont fight against us.

I know this is wholly incomprehsible to you, but is it possible that America could be wrong and that the people fighting this global empire might not be evil and inhuman?

Whats wrong with a little torture here and there. Its a useful tool.

J. M. Hoffman educational productions presents: Why it's not nice to torture people. An after school special.

Hey kids! I'm J. M. Hoffman. You might remember me from such educational messages as "Why the choking game is a stupid idea, you arsehats" and "How to build a proper water bong"

Why hello there Joey, what's that you're doing to your little friend there? My, could it be torture? Torture is wrong Joey, and we're going to go on a magical learning adventure to find out why. The first reason is that torture really hurts, but you don't care that you're hurting other people, do you Joey?

"No sir, not really I spose"

Well then, did you know that when you torture people you're really hurting... you? Let's take a look at why.

The Spanish inquisition, and Nazi concentration camps both loved to torture people, even if they didnt necessarily know anything. But it didn't really help them or else we'd all be taking mass and speaking German. Torture made them look silly, and gave people like Monty Python a great way to make fun of them.

But torture will do a lot worse than make people laugh at you, Joey. It also scares away people who might have helped you. And what's worse is that it gives your enemies all the more reason to fight you by proving that you're a souless infidel, Joey.

"But gosh Mr. Hoffman, while I was torturing this kid he admitted that he ate the last cookie in the cookie jar, the one that was mine! Dosn't he deserve it then?"

Well that's the funny thing about torture, Joey. When you torture someone they'll say whatever you want to hear, maybe even tell you their country has all sorts of nasty weapons laying around when they really don't. You wouldn't want to get in a fight based on lies gained through torture, would you Joey? No I thought not.

And now we know...

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!

[civilian_number_two]

I believe that if another copuntry has the audacity to fight the US at all, then the lives of every man, woman and child in that country, hell, even the lives of tourists from any but the invading country, are forfeit. US prison camps should not be investigated by any body, and skinning prisoners alive should be par for the course. Not only will this hasten victory against the infidels, but it will ensure that when American soldiers are captured by enemy sopldiers, they will be treated especially well. The prisoner exchanges of WWI and WWII were for faggots. We should not have any prisoners left to trade, but we can sell them back their captured dead as dog food, soap, and lamp shades.

I also agree that all homosexuals ought to be rounded up and sent to Guantanamo Bay, just as soon as the constitution is changed to show that they are an abomination against the Lord.

[Cobnat]

Hey if you don’t want to end up being a prisoner of war and getting treated like shit in prison, don’t go to war. Its part of the deal.

I agree with Abbey, but I disagree with the way thier detained... for you see, there were once these things called "GULAGS" that would mean that prisoners would work rather then waste thier time and our recourses pissing away thier time in a cell thinking how they could kill themselves.

[J m HofMarN]

Civ- You forgot to mentioning that attempting to investigate the US' secret torture facilities should be grounds for imprisonment in said facilities. I wander how concerned the EU will be with looking into extraordinary renditions when all their investigators disappear. hwahahaha!

Sorry Abby, Cobnat agrees with you. That's an automatic five points to my side of the argument. The only way you can win now is if you can get the KKK to agree with me.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 13 June 2006 - 03:29 AM

[Gobbler]

J. M. Hoffman educational productions presents: Why it's not nice to torture people. An after school special.

Salutations, Mr. HofMarN, couldn't have said it better.

Sorry Abby, Cobnat agrees with you.

It's the ultimate headshot, indeed.

[Cobnat]

Sorry Abby, Cobnat agrees with you. That's an automatic five points to my side of the argument. The only way you can win now is if you can get the KKK to agree with me.

It's the ultimate headshot, indeed.

Dont worry, youll get yours soon. BOTH of you...

@hoffy- So then if you disagree with me and Abbey, you agree that people who are planning another 9/11 or London Bombings should go free? Maybe you should not be so quick to disagree with a person just becouse you dont like them.