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"I am your father"...and that explains NOTHING! Luke sure loved his Jump To Conclusions mat!

#1 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 11:08 PM

OK, so if I remember correctly, the big scene goes as follows...

"Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father..."

"He told me enough...he told me YOU killed him!"

"No...*I* am your father!"

*Cue whining and minging Skywalker*

OK...why is the first assumption of everyone involved is that Vader's ultimately vague revelation means he's Anakin Skywalker? All we've been told up until that point is that Darth Vader and Anakin were two seperate people. Isn't it just as likely that saying "I am your father" ultimately means that Darth Vader, the other student and totally seperate person, is actually Luke's father?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea that Darth and Anakin were two seperate people. If the story had been that somehow both were killed and it had APPEARED that Darth had miracuously survived, but it was actually Anakin assuming his identity (being terribly disfigured and wrapped in black leather and plastic with a voice changer goes a long way here)...that would make the revelation he's Luke's father that much more powerful. As it stands, only having one person who just changed identities along the way makes Anakin look even more batshit bonkers, and Obi-Wan and Yoda look like total douchebags. Obi-Wan dying thinking that Darth was actually his real student Darth and then finding out that Darth is actually Anakin when Ben becomes "one with the Force" would add some juicy extra layers of drama to the saga. Obi-Wan and Yoda have been hiding Luke and Leia with the idea one of them will ultimately be able to destroy Darth, and then all of a sudden this spanner in the works of Darth actually being Anakin...conflict!

Though Anakin being the father can still work and be even more of a surprise. Anakin always was the good guy and Darth was the one slowly slipping towards evil. Maybe Anakin was, on the surface, the better pilot and Jedi, but as time slipped on and Darth plotted in secret, he grew jealous of Anakin's glory and embraced the dark side and Palpatine's secret agenda. At some point during the Clone Wars, Anakin is lost and believed dead, and Darth swoops in to "comfort" Padme. Anakin reappears, miracuously saved, and he and Padme or joyously reunited and proceed to have lots of celebration sex.

Soon, however, Padme confesses the tryst with Darth and Anakin flies into a rage. Darth, having lost Padme back to Anakin, has totally renounced the Jedi and become a Sith. Anakin demands that the Jedi hunt Darth down, but the Council refuses, since Anakin wants to basically lop a dude's head off for a booty call, Weak revenge, dude. Anakin grows even more furious at the Council refusing him and pursues Darth on his own. Obi-Wan of course follows, determined to not lose both students to the Dark Side. Maybe even have Mace Windu tag along, since he needs to do something. Anakin catches up to Darth, and they have a knockdown brawl. During the battle, Anakin finally takes the upper hand and lops off Darth's arm. Darth falls, gravely wounded. Anakin hesitates, seeing his friend, a man who's been like a brother to him, dying. At that moment, Mace and Obi-Wan show up, and only see Anakin over Darth with his lightsaber drawn. They both charge him, fighting him off. Darth sees his opportunity and suddenly surges up, attacking all three from behind. Mace slashes Darth across the chest and kicks him to the ground, barely breathing and not moving. Anakin snaps and hurls Obi-Wan away and attacks Mace in a frenzy, ultimately killing him before Kenobi can stop him. Obi-Wan attacks Anakin and ultimately defeats him (lopping off an arm, of course)...knocking him off of something, preferrably. Basically, Anakin is thought to be dead, but there's no time to double check the convenient chasm he fell into because Darth is still alive and Obi-Wan doesn't want to lose both of his students.

Darth ends up in the SW version of the hospital, comatose and breathing only through a contraption that totally hides his face...think a really rough version of Vader in the OT. The Jedi can only sense pure hate and jealousy in what little brain activity he has, and sadly leave him to the care of the hospital. Anakin, however, has survived. Murdering Mace and the fury over Padme and Darth's affair, plus the seeming betrayal of his own master attacking him has sent him over the edge. He sneaks in and spirits Darth away. The Jedi suspect only that Darth himself has somehow deceived them and has escaped and are determined to track him down to recapture him before he hurts anyone else. Anakin realizes that everyone thinks he's dead and Darth is alive, so he disguises himself, ironically, with the "breathing suit" and leaves Darth to die without it. He's ultimately tracked down, by Obi-Wan of course, somewhere volcano-like, or maybe a factory or chemical plant of some sort where they have their climactic battle. The key is that everyone thinks (or it appears that way) Anakin is actually Darth...the Jedi, the Republic, even the Emperor. Palps is trying to secretly track down "Darth" as well since he doesn't want "Vader" spilling his guts out if caught again. Obi-Wan and Anakin duke it out and ultimately Anakin is critically injured...caught in an explosion or landslide or collapse or something that leaves him horribly burned and ruined and knocks Obi-Wan aside. Obi-Wan senses that his opponent is still alive, but can only feel the burning hate and fury coming from him; Anakin is totally lost to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan sadly realizes he must kill his own student before Anakin/Darth kills countless others. Unfortunately, as he moves in, Palp's shuttle suddenly swoops in and fires on Obi-Wan, forcing him to retreat and barely escape with Palp's guards in hot pursuit. Palpy too senses the anger and power coming from Anakin/Darth, and has him rebuilt to serve him. Now it would make sense that at some point between the PT and the OT that Palps would find out who "Darth" really is...I just think this scenario works better in terms of characters like Obi-Wan and Yoda. They really don't know who Darth actually is. Obi-Wan becomes a much more tragic figure. And I think it works if ultimately Anakin never turns evil and is killed by Darth. Everyone thinks Padme has Anakin's kids, but they're really Darth's from that one night stand when Anakin is thought dead.

Meh...sorry for all the rambling.
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#2 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:49 AM

You have to stop lumping the OT and PT together like they are one big story. Youre only hurting yourself.
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#3 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 10:56 AM

That's right. You have to understand the POWER of the OT.

Obi-wan never told you of that other trilogy. Pray that noone else does.
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#4 User is offline   Tymaporer Icon

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:58 PM

That was very confusing, but probably only because that's not what happened...if it were, it probably wouldn't be.

Otherwise, I'm not going to state my opinion on this.
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#5 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:19 PM

It's insanely confusing.

Let's route it back to my original question...how come Luke doesn't seem confused even for a moment when he hears "I am your father?" All he's been told up until this point is that Darth and Anakin are two seperate guys. "I am your father" means "Darth Vader, the actual other person not Anakin, is your father" just as much as "There's really nobody named Darth Vader, I'm actually Anakin in a funny costume with a silly name." Both are ludicrous assumptions...why is the "I am your father/Anakin" one the obvious choice? Nothing we've seen or heard up until that point indicates that that theory is any more likely than Darth Vader actually being a guy named Darth Vader who killed Anakin and fathered the children thought to be Skywalker's.
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#6 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:49 AM

Anikan who? We've never been told his name prior to ROTJ. Use of that name in regard to what is an excellent movie already drags it down.
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#7 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 08:32 AM

QUOTE (MyPantsAreOnFire @ Jun 6 2006, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nothing we've seen or heard up until that point indicates that that theory is any more likely than Darth Vader actually being a guy named Darth Vader who killed Anakin and fathered the children thought to be Skywalker's.


Its awfully hard to impregnate someone when you're rocking a sealed black jump suit.
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#8 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Jun 6 2006, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anikan who? We've never been told his name prior to ROTJ. Use of that name in regard to what is an excellent movie already drags it down.


Holy crap, really? That's...very poor writing. And that's being polite. Alright, nevermind, there goes my question. Goddamn hindsight.
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#9 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Jun 6 2006, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anikan who? We've never been told his name prior to ROTJ. Use of that name in regard to what is an excellent movie already drags it down.


I'm such an idiot and I never realized this!!! So much for having it all planned out in your head right Georgie Boy.. sick.gif
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#10 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 11:41 PM

Yeah I remember being amazed as a kid in ROTJ finally hearing Vaders actual name. Anakin. It was such a cool reveal at the time.
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#11 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 08:22 AM

But totally irrelevant and pointless. Why did he change his name to Darth Vader? What did he have to hide? At that point, "Darth Vader" wasn't any kind of title...it was his name. "Lord Vader" was his title. He could have remained "father" or "your father." Giving him a name at that point reeks of desperately trying to play catch up...which Lucas was obviously doing. See the "lets sit our asses down on a log and stop the movie dead for 5 minutes" scene.
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