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Denied/Curse You George Lucas Sad Realization About Jar Jar Occurred To Me Today

#16 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 11:27 PM

at the end of the day JJ never blubbered "what have i done?" or "Noooooooooo!" so technically he's still cooler than Anakin.
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#17 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 11:37 PM

And Palpatine's Muppet court in the senate got to float whereas Jabba's had to shift around him like people at a cocktail party without the buffet or bar. Only difference between the two is the nice setting and no 'despised enemy in carbonite or head stuck on a wall'.

So basically, in addition to the first point, all the human characters, or the ones looking more like humans (Chewbacca looking like the lost Alman Brother for example as opposed to the Muppet-like aliens we see later) revolt and form the Rebellion against Palpatine and the Muppet crew, nice 'White Man's Burden" there GL.....Maybe Jar Jar had an indirect hand in forming the Rebellion by annoying the hell out of its chief members.

I can see the redone briefing scene in ANH Special Edition 1,000 where General Doonda or whoever the guy in the robe says "and we further have reason to believe that Jar Jar Binks is aboard (Death Star #!) as all the pilots get infused with rage over losing Aldeeran and now this to go in fighting with renewed vigor.
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#18 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 12:35 AM

QUOTE
where General Doonda or whoever the guy in the robe says "and we further have reason to believe that Jar Jar Binks is aboard (Death Star #!) as all the pilots get infused with rage over losing Aldeeran and now this to go in fighting with renewed vigor.


Had Dadonna said that, I bet Porkins would have plowed in and destroyed the Death Star on his own, resulting in not a single Rebel casualty.
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#19 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 01:36 AM

QUOTE (MyPantsAreOnFire @ May 16 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please, someone, anyone, point out a character as significant and who got as much screentime as Jar Jar did in TPM who then all but vanishes in the later films in either trilogy...and doesn't die?

Yeah, he has his moment in AOTC, but it's just that...a moment. Very bizarre for someone who got so much attention the first time around. I'd bet plenty that Lucas fully intended for Jar Jar to be around just as much in AOTC until everyone over the age of 6 was revolted by the idea. Why have him waste everyone's time in the 1st film and then banish him off the screen almost entirely? It's so shallow and obvious.


Again, that's just...OK.

He was a minor character in the first film at best. After his early introductory scenes, and a couple of scenes on Tat he basically hovered around in the background until the end.

Lucas could use JJ in this way because TPM was just a basic wander around, meet the gang set up that, at its core, is supposed to be lighthearted.

You say that this was a snap descision after TPM.
I say, not only does Lucas not give a shit about fanboys (you know the kids loved him), where on earth would JJ fit into AotC in the same way that he fit into TPM? Apart from the (great) way that Lucas used him in 2, wheres the space?

JJ might work (at least on paper) in the lighthearted kind of environment TPM was but he'd clash with and distract from any of the weighter stuff AotC tries to deal with.
Honestly though, where would he go? To Kamino with Obi Wan? With Ani and Padme on Naboo?
He'd be so out of place there that, if that happened, you'd be here right now saying "I can't believe Lucas forced JJ in just to please the kids and sell more toys!"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And please don't tell me you think Lucas rewrote the whole arc of 2 and 3 (heavily dependant on each other) because of the internet.

In my mind all the times I thought "christ Lucas, what were you thinking of" JJ scene in TPM was forgiven by what he did with the character in AotC.

That was the point of JJ, and it's fairly surprising (to me anyway) to see Lucas break the mold typical in kids films of this type, where the bumbling outsider always pulls through and succeeds in the end.
JJ tries, but never succeeds. I can't watch the senate JJ scene in AotC without feeling at least some pity for the poor bastard.
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#20 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 01:56 AM

QUOTE (MyPantsAreOnFire @ May 16 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please, someone, anyone, point out a character as significant and who got as much screentime as Jar Jar did in TPM who then all but vanishes in the later films in either trilogy...and doesn't die?


boba fett.

in AOTC they dragged his ass in for no reason, just to have another round of 'it's a small world after all' and i wasn't too happy about that. but i was ever so miffed when he failed to appear in ROTS... i wanted no mention of him at all... not here's how boba came about, see him as a kid for no reason... then suddenly, yeah that was it.

yoda knew chewbacca, anakin built C3-P0, baby boba was the clone template's mini-me, etc. etc.

as irrelevant as it would have been to the story... a little back history on han solo was considered LESS important than all that?
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#21 User is offline   Gerhard Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 07:08 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ May 17 2006, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rubbish. Stop patting yourself so hard on the back.

"Suddenly reducing him to next to nothing"

JJ in TPM- bumbling, well meaning, end result he falls over.

JJ in AotC- bumbling, well meaning, end result he kick starts the Empire.

He had this planned out well in advance.


I'm not sure if you are being ironic. But whatever.

The thing is, Lucas stated in the ROTJ Commentary two striking things:
"I know Everybody hates ewoks"
"If I knew Boba fett was so popular I would have him climbing out of the Sarlac"

Boba Fett "Clone" (Jango) in the PT, is there why? part of is vision? or to satisfy fanboys?

Changes in the OT, Luke screams in 97, no scream in 2004, did someone told him, "George, I mean, it does not make sense Luke screaming" ?

Does this not prove he listens to fans? My commentary about internet boards was sarcastic, but it maybe not far from the truth.

About having it all planned... He even killed Obi-Wan while shooting the death star scenes in ANH, pretty major change in the script no?
Anakin appeared as a ghost in one of the early drafts of ESB (he was not Vader at that stage, let alone in ANH)

Yoda was a puppet in TPM, how on earth was he going make Yoda fight in AOTC?
He wasn't, the script was changed to accommodate the fact that Yoda was now CGI.

and now you want me to believe Jar Jar omission in 2 & 3 where planned?

I mean, it requires more faith in believing Lucas had it all planned than believing that Jesus walked on water...

This post has been edited by Gerhard: 17 May 2006 - 07:18 AM

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#22 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 08:43 AM

I think it's safe to say he winged on the fly a good 90% of what we saw after ANH...and definitely all of the major twists and plot points.

QUOTE
You say that this was a snap descision after TPM.
I say, not only does Lucas not give a shit about fanboys (you know the kids loved him), where on earth would JJ fit into AotC in the same way that he fit into TPM? Apart from the (great) way that Lucas used him in 2, wheres the space?


Yeah, Lucas obviously had no use for his wacky shenanigans in the bleak and desolate AOTC. The antics of R2 and 3PO in the droid factory and the battle that follows are a stern and and impressive commentary about...well, I'm not sure what, but it's something clearly very serious and important.

The presence of Boba Fett and his jazz guitar pluckin' father in the PT shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that Lucas very much does give a big ol' heaping pile of shit about the fanboys.
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#23 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 10:19 AM

QUOTE
Yeah, Lucas obviously had no use for his wacky shenanigans in the bleak and desolate AOTC. The antics of R2 and 3PO in the droid factory and the battle that follows are a stern and and impressive commentary about...well, I'm not sure what, but it's something clearly very serious and important.


I was about to say the same the same thing...
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#24 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE (MyPantsAreOnFire @ May 17 2006, 08:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it's safe to say he winged on the fly a good 90% of what we saw after ANH...and definitely all of the major twists and plot points.
Yeah, Lucas obviously had no use for his wacky shenanigans in the bleak and desolate AOTC. The antics of R2 and 3PO in the droid factory and the battle that follows are a stern and and impressive commentary about...well, I'm not sure what, but it's something clearly very serious and important.


So you pick out the one comedic sequence in AotC to prove your point. Great.

I've still got the two main plot strands in AotC, one of which is about an insidious plot to destroy the Jedi, the other about a doomed romance which will lead to the creation of Vader to back me up though.

AotC is about as far away from TPM in terms of mood as RotS is.

Like I said before, if Lucas had put JJ into Geonosis, or had him follow one of the others around (and I wrote before how that wouldn't have worked) you would be here writing "I can't believe Lucas just forced this character into the script!!"

Gerard- your examples (the Yoda one aside) come from the OT. Unlike the OT, he knew that the PT was definatly going to be a trilogy, and he definalty knew (assuming he didnt die) that all three were going to get made.
So he sat down and wrote the treatments for all three before he made the first one.
Who wouldn't?
Why spend the money to make a CGI Yoda in TPM when a puppet would be perfectly adaquate for what the character needed to do in the film?
These films are coming out of Lucas' own pocket.
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#25 User is offline   Gerhard Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (jariten @ May 17 2006, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why spend the money to make a CGI Yoda in TPM when a puppet would be perfectly adaquate for what the character needed to do in the film?
These films are coming out of Lucas' own pocket.


there are rumors of a CGI Yoda in TPM for a future release. Why spend the money?

CGI Yoda was only developed for AOTC, this can be seen in the AOTC DVD, some the ILM guys screened some Yoda animation for Lucas and it had his OK. This is a fact. Then again, Jar Jar was a of experience in TPM, having succeeded they went to do Yoda, which was a bigger challenge because he had to look like the puppet.

That's my mine criticism on the PT (alongside poor character development) it's technology driven, not story driven. Yoda suddenly fights because... they could do it, not because it's important to the story. (if Lucas had vague treatments for the PT is irrelevant)

BTW be prepared, in future PT releases, for character/story changes, depending on the technology available
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#26 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:11 PM

QUOTE (jariten @ May 17 2006, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you pick out the one comedic sequence in AotC to prove your point. Great.


the one?
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#27 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:47 PM

BTW be prepared, in future PT releases, for character/story changes, depending on the technology available

Will we have to engage in online petition fights to rerelease the PT because it sucked less than the tweaked redone PT releases? My mind shutters at the thought....

This post has been edited by Darth Player: 17 May 2006 - 06:48 PM

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#28 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE (Gerhard @ May 17 2006, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
there are rumors of a CGI Yoda in TPM for a future release. Why spend the money?



Lucas asked his henchmen to develop a CGI Yoda for TPM as practice for the AotC Yoda. The CGI Yoda may still never see the light of day.

QUOTE
CGI Yoda was only developed for AOTC, this can be seen in the AOTC DVD, some the ILM guys screened some Yoda animation for Lucas and it had his OK. This is a fact. Then again, Jar Jar was a of experience in TPM, having succeeded they went to do Yoda, which was a bigger challenge because he had to look like the puppet.


Yes, he was only developed for AotC, because there were scenes that required him to be CGI. I'm not sure what your point is here.

TPM= puppet, because the story didn't require him to do much.
AotC= CGI, because the story required him to fight.

QUOTE
That's my mine criticism on the PT (alongside poor character development) it's technology driven, not story driven. Yoda suddenly fights because... they could do it, not because it's important to the story. (if Lucas had vague treatments for the PT is irrelevant


And how can you show that, except with your own bias against them?

You basically just said "its technology driven because they used a lot of modern technology to create it".

You realise that you could say the same for the OT though, right?
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#29 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 11:54 PM

How can anyone be "biased" against movies? It's totally subjective.
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#30 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 02:47 AM

Nature finds a way.
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