[barend]

Actually the name of the planet is Bespin, and according to the Star Wars data bank, it is an incredibly dense, and uninhabitable planet. The reason for Cloud City to exist is to serve as a base of operations for Tibanna gas miners in Bespin's lower atmosphere.

How do you explain the difference between surfing over a lava river on a piece of metal, and Luke holding his hand out to "Force pull" his lightsaber into his hand to chop off a Wampa's arm? How about the giant slug that lives in a cave on an asteroid with no atmosphere? How about Luke falling from the body of an AT-AT, and running away without a scratch (or falling down a seemingly bottomless shaft in Cloud City without breaking any bones)? How about the two proton torpedoes fired into the Death Star's power core shaft (they went straight ahead until they got to the power core shaft opening, and then veered downward)? I know... the Force... I got it. What about the fact that Chewbacca speaks Wookiee, but can carry on a conversation with Han Solo, who can't speak Wookiee? How about a brother and sister kissing each other, when the sister knew all along that they were siblings? I agree the elements of the OT are fantastical, but they are just as absurd as the elements of the PT. I'm not saying I don't like the OT. ESB's the best out of all of them, in my opinion.

jesus christ...

i'm over explaining the simple things to the simple folk.

the force is the fantasy element. Gandalf in LOTR had magical powers but if he'd hopped off gwahir when saving frodo and had a sip of lava it would have stepped away from fantasy and into absurdity... even in fantasy there are boundaries...

fucking hell, i can't beleive you seriously can't make the distinction. that's so lame...

[jariten]

I think we're all in agreement that SW is fantasy, and that all 6 movies require you to suspend your disbelief in one way or another.

What I don't see, based on the contents of the films (as you rightly pointed out before), how Cloud City is any more believable than Mustafar, or Naboo.

Or how is Anakin and Obi Wan fighting on those transports (why do we keep using the verb 'to surf' btw?) but not being burned (as i'm guessing is the problem here), any worse than Han, Leia etc. stepping out into a vacuum in the slugs body with nothing to protect them except some very cheap looking face masks, and suffering no ill effects (Leias mask even falls off at one point, but of course thats just a regular goof. Makes you wonder why they didnt shoot the scene again of course)?

What i'm saying is, we can come up with excuses to cover this stuff, but the real answer is that its all meant to be swallowed with a tablespoon of suger and another blast of the Star Wars theme music.

[Sailor Abbey]

any worse than Han, Leia etc. stepping out into a vacuum in the slugs body with nothing to protect them except some very cheap looking face masks, and suffering no ill effects (Leias mask even falls off at one point, but of course thats just a regular goof. Makes you wonder why they didnt shoot the scene again of course)?

That part was really gay. You don’t catch that stuff when your seven, but watching it now, its absolutely ridiculous.

[Lord Aquaman]

Y'know, of all the lightsaber duels seen in the PT, the Liam Neeson/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul duel was probably the best staged.

The duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan at the end of ROTS reminded me of "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock" when Kirk (William Shatner) is fighting Klingon Commander Kruge (Christopher Lloyd) on the rapidly deteriorating Genesis planet.

As for things I may have actually liked about ROTS... not much of anything. I thought the film as a whole was less annoying than TPM and/or AOTC but still not a solid film. Although at the end when Obi-Wan's screaming his head off at the half mutilated and rapidly burning Anakin "You were the Chosen One!" and all that crap, for a moment I kinda felt for the guy. For a brief moment there Ewan McGregor actually imbued Obi-Wan Kenobi with something resembling passion or at least a feeling of remorse. It didn't last long, but it was there for a brief moment.

And then at the end when we see Obi-Wan hand off baby Luke to the young Aunt Beru, that I kinda like simply because Bonnie Marie Piesse is HOT as Hell itself - in a good way of course.

[Jejef Thgaron]

I think we're all in agreement that SW is fantasy, and that all 6 movies require you to suspend your disbelief in one way or another.

What I don't see, based on the contents of the films (as you rightly pointed out before), how Cloud City is any more believable than Mustafar, or Naboo.

Or how is Anakin and Obi Wan fighting on those transports (why do we keep using the verb 'to surf' btw?) but not being burned (as i'm guessing is the problem here), any worse than Han, Leia etc. stepping out into a vacuum in the slugs body with nothing to protect them except some very cheap looking face masks, and suffering no ill effects (Leias mask even falls off at one point, but of course thats just a regular goof. Makes you wonder why they didnt shoot the scene again of course)?

What i'm saying is, we can come up with excuses to cover this stuff, but the real answer is that its all meant to be swallowed with a tablespoon of suger and another blast of the Star Wars theme music.

I agree. Why is it the things that can be explained by the use of the Force in the OT, can not also be used to expain things in the PT? It is fantasy, jariten. Any attempts to understand these films in a 'real' life pretext are pointless. The explanation is simple: These are movies, not real life events.

[barend]

the simplest way to put it is that the stuff in the OT is easier to justify than the stuff in the PT. The stuff in the OT was also written only 5-6 years after man landed on the moon, and the PT was written 30 years after the event.

the worm thing is the biggest stretch of the imagination. if it were a sillicon based life from, its vaguley believable... within the confines of the fantasy environment.

but if lava in the SW universe is only too hot touch and nothing more, than it really defeats the purpose of having it there at all... it would have more dangerous for them to fight in a burning wood cabin.

if cool water runs through the center of the planet, it's dead.

why did they have to get to the other side of the planet? to justify travelling through it. an absurd notion introduced for reasons unneccessary!

the absurdity is obvious and offensive.

The OT had han and leia in breath masks in the belly of a worm living on a large asteroid that seemed to have a thin layer of trace atmosphere from it previously planitary state. The PT would have Han and liea dancing naked in space...

[jariten]

the simplest way to put it is that the stuff in the OT is easier to justify than the stuff in the PT. The stuff in the OT was also written only 5-6 years after man landed on the moon, and the PT was written 30 years after the event.

What does this mean? That when ESB was made the creators/viewers didn't realise that a human being could not survive in a vaccum? Of course not, the creators knew this but put it in (and its part of that whole filler section of ESB that no one likes to regard as such) because its a BIG SPACE SLUG IN SPACE! RAD! and the viewers forget the absurdity of it for the same reason, much like they get swept up in the absurdity of two men standing right near lava with no real ill effects (near, not on. SW lava does burn like actual lava as we see).
Again- People can complain about the lava scenes, as long as they realise they're admonishing the OT with the same blow.

The OT had han and leia in breath masks in the belly of a worm living on a large asteroid that seemed to have a thin layer of trace atmosphere from it previously planitary state. The PT would have Han and liea dancing naked in space...

oh, come on now be sensible.

[barend]

i am being sensible... alot of stories suggested a thin atmos on asteroids... these days we don't beleive it...

i am being sensible. you're just trying to hold the OT to ransom to give passage to the PT...

there's big bloody jump from the absurdities and justifiability of the two and you know it...

[jariten]

I was reffering to the Han and Leia in space comment.

There is no difference between the absurdity of surviving a vacuum with nothing to protect you and standing near lava with no ill effects. There just isn't.

[master mixer]

standing near lava

or being

[Sailor Abbey]

The PT would have Han and liea dancing naked in space...

great visual!

[Gerhard]

As for things I may have actually liked about ROTS... not much of anything. I thought the film as a whole was less annoying than TPM and/or AOTC but still not a solid film. Although at the end when Obi-Wan's screaming his head off at the half mutilated and rapidly burning Anakin "You were the Chosen One!" and all that crap, for a moment I kinda felt for the guy. For a brief moment there Ewan McGregor actually imbued Obi-Wan Kenobi with something resembling passion or at least a feeling of remorse. It didn't last long, but it was there for a brief moment.

Lucky you, I just thought (in the same scene) : "well done, I can't see any traces of the blue screen"

[Lord Aquaman]

the simplest way to put it is that the stuff in the OT is easier to justify than the stuff in the PT. The stuff in the OT was also written only 5-6 years after man landed on the moon, and the PT was written 30 years after the event.

the worm thing is the biggest stretch of the imagination. if it were a sillicon based life from, its vaguley believable... within the confines of the fantasy environment.

but if lava in the SW universe is only too hot touch and nothing more, than it really defeats the purpose of having it there at all... it would have more dangerous for them to fight in a burning wood cabin.

if cool water runs through the center of the planet, it's dead.

why did they have to get to the other side of the planet? to justify travelling through it. an absurd notion introduced for reasons unneccessary!

the absurdity is obvious and offensive.

The OT had han and leia in breath masks in the belly of a worm living on a large asteroid that seemed to have a thin layer of trace atmosphere from it previously planitary state. The PT would have Han and liea dancing naked in space...

Well said, Barend.

[barend]

thankyou...

there is adiffernece jar...

its where the story goes...

han and liea are in the belly of a giant creature, we assume its clearly not vacuumous there, therefore the creature (to survive) is retaining some manner of atmoshperic pressure inside it... the point is that they reaslize they're in there and have to get out before they get proper swallowed and diguested.

the point of two people fighting near lava is that lava is the danger, but if they can fight that close to it that it's not that dangerous at all, in which case one has to ask why the fuck lava is involved at all?

[Revan-47]

Because standing 4 feet over lava is just as bad as drowning in it.