[barend]

Lucas is just a lot more subtle about character backgrounds than other directors.

not subtle... just purposfully neglectful. He's in too much of a rush to care about quality performance or story editing, first draft, first take, everyone fuck off, i wanna get to post!!!

subtle indeed...

how many people got their hands cut off?

[Gobbler]

I haven't got enough hands to count...

[jariten]

No one whos given these films even the remotest of glances should be confused by them. I often wonder if some people choose to add complications where there are none.

J m HofMarN said:

How did Jango Fett have dealings with Sifo Dias?

who said he did?

Who was Sifo Dias?

The Jedi who ordered the clone army.

Quote

The origins of the bad guys were all not only left un-clear, but they were completely unrelated

Which "bad guys"?

Quote

They weren't recruited, they didn't come to Palpatine as a result of events, they just popped up

What?

Quote

Or, in the case of Sifo Dias, were used as clues and excuses and then never even mentioned again

He wasn't mentioned again because he didnt need to be mentioned again.

"I was recruited by Tyranus on one of the moons of Bolkton (sp?)"

There you go. Pay attention at the end, and you hear Sid call Dooku "Lord Tyranus", and you could predict events from RotS from that (Lucas is making these things to be watched in sequence remember)
Dooku created the clone army.

Quote

Both Dooku's speech ot Obi Wan in AOTC and Palps opera speech to Anakin in ROTS could have been used to flesh out the histpory and relations of the characters that didn't get any screen time, but this opportunity was ignored entirely.

again, you're unclear about what you need and why.



NEXT

[quote="Barend"]Sifo Dias
AKA darth Plagus

Its funny how you always talk about "ITS ONLY WHATS IN THE MOVIES THEMSELVES THATS IMPORTANT!" (which is something I agree with btw) then come out with stuff like this that exists only in your own mind.
Tell you what, show me where in ANY of the Star Wars films where Sifo Dias is the same character as Plagus and i'll retract my 'hypocrite' allegation.

Quote

Darth Plagueis
AKA Sifo Dias

same goes for that.

IN YOUR OWN WORDS:

Quote

yes, exactly... that's what i just said. if not developed there, what's the point. we're discussing the films. THE FILMS. THE MOVIES!!!! UNDERSTAND?!?

if he's characters background is written on the wall of some toilet in a slezy whore house in New MExico i don't give a flying FUCK!

the muthafucker got no background in the trillogy. who is he? we don't know...
some geek: "If you purchase the chronicals of...

SHUT UP!!!!

MOVIE!!!!=STORY ON FILM!!!

if you can't understand that you never will...
don't EVER bring up that lame dispelled crap again!!!

shall we continue?

Quote

Count Dooku
underdeveloped bad guy

General Greivous
Completeley non-developed bad guy.

I dont see what this has to do with the OP, but these characters were developed in exactly the right amount that they needed to be. I'll show you.

Dooku= the charasmatic leader of the sepratist army, who left the Jedi order.
Also a sith (revealed at the end) who has been turned by a sith, showing us that it can be done.

Please explain why we need to know more than that. and if so, what?

Greivous=the ugly droid leader of the droid army, spearheading the sep. fight against the Jedi in the clone wars.
along with Dooku, one of two leaders, hence the Jedis need to catch him.
A foreshadowing of Vader at the end of the film.

same question as before.

Quote

Palpatine
sat down had a chat, "Oh BTW My master is dead and i made you" with anikan

This is what I meant at the start. Not only do I have no idea why you wrote that, Palps implied that his master made Anakin, not him.

Quote

the Jedi archives
?????????

My 8 year old cousin knew it was Dooku after AotC. I know you did too.

the clones
made by boba fetts dad for some reason... paid for by Sifoplagus, stolen by palpatine, then by obiwan and given to palpatine to fight the droids owned by dooku who's working for Palpatine.

again, its hard to take this stuff seriously, Barend. all of this is in the films and is quite simple. I know you know this, which means you're doing it on purpose, but for the sake of completion:

Jango was hired by Dooku to make the clones (see above quote)
I dont know who paid for the clones (do we need too?) but it was probably some rich combination of Palps and Dooku AND all those clans and whatnot had joined the seps.
"stolen by papatine" what?
"then by obiwan" what?
"to fight the droids etc...." PALPATINE CREATED THE WAR. CHRIST THIS IS THE CENTRAL IDEA BEHIND PAPATINES RISE TO POWER. did you like the use of caps there?

ETA:
The quote function doesnt seem to be working for me (!?) thats why the quotes are in bold and look strange.

This post has been edited by jariten: 17 March 2006 - 09:08 PM

[Revan-47]

Excellent Jariten. THese people hate george lucas and the prequels so much that they will make up anything bad about them.


Edit:btw, who is that in your avatar?

This post has been edited by Revan-47: 18 March 2006 - 09:51 AM

[Azrael23]

Excellent Jariten. THese people hate george lucas and the prequels so much that they will make up anything bad about them.
Edit:btw, who is that in your avatar?

I don't think its nothing personal, Most of the bad stuff about the Prequels is pretty obvious.
The Prequels was always suppose to be more complex than the original trilogy, I don't know
what made Lucas think he could tell the story in 7 hours of film, he would done better making
the prequels a live action series, to better flesh out everything.

This post has been edited by Azrael23: 18 March 2006 - 11:50 AM

[barend]

again, its hard to take this stuff seriously, Barend. all of this is in the films and is quite simple. I know you know this, which means you're doing it on purpose, but for the sake of completion:

Jango was hired by Dooku to make the clones (see above quote)
I dont know who paid for the clones (do we need too?) but it was probably some rich combination of Palps and Dooku AND all those clans and whatnot had joined the seps.
"stolen by papatine" what?
"then by obiwan" what?
"to fight the droids etc...." PALPATINE CREATED THE WAR. CHRIST THIS IS THE CENTRAL IDEA BEHIND PAPATINES RISE TO POWER. did you like the use of caps there?

ETA:
The quote function doesnt seem to be working for me (!?) thats why the quotes are in bold and look strange.

i've already stated this... Palpatine is playing chess with himself... to confuse the republic.

i get that, it's alright...

firstly... sifo deus is responsible for the creation of the clones. The kaminonion tells obiwan this in AOTC. Therefore Palpatine DID NOT have them made.

We know that Sifo Diuus' "good" status was a little under question for ammasing an army in secret...
We know he 'disappeared'....
We know Palpatine had a master with the alias Darth Plagus. I can only assume, unless he had fucked up parents, that this was not his birth name. There fore the Jedi, or where ever he got his training, would have known him as something else... Palpatine said this dude was into creating life by manipulation of midchlorians... a practice not to dissimilar to genetic engineering in basic principal... but anyway... Palpatine killed this guy in his sleep... of course palpatines only real confession to this was his cheeky grin while telling the story and later refering to him as "my master" but you feel free to misintererate this is him passing gas and getting away with it in the theater and refering to a third mystery character all together... (well, that's what everyone else seems to be doing). Personally, and call me crazy on this one, I think it only stands to reason that the myserious figure who was know to 'have force' who endorsed the bypassing of procreation to create life that they talk about in AOTC and the myserious figure who was know to 'have force' who endorsed the bypassing of procreation to create life that they talk about in ROTS might just by the tiniest of possibilities be the same person....

no cartoons, no books, just rudementary logic and deduction....
an explanation that conects alot of loose ends....

all based on what i saw at the movies...

therefore palpy stole the clones from dius, but then obiwan found them and the council took the clones for their own use, then palpy said, i could use those to kill the droids... and so they said okay, and so he did, and thus it was etc. etc. what i said before was true, you just didn't understand because i was talking comically enraged giberish to illustrate my anger at havening to explain such a simple thing....

[Despondent]

Palatine is synomous with emperor, btfw.

[barend]

oh, yeah... i forgot to mention that...

[jariten]

no cartoons, no books, just rudementary logic and deduction....
an explanation that conects alot of loose ends....

no no no.

Listen, if you want to come out with this stuff and put it in a post then fine. In fact, i'd like to read it.

But you can't do that (make statements based on things that DONT APPEAR IN THE FILMS) then berate someone else for doing the same thing.

Thats just wrong.

and

firstly... sifo deus is responsible for the creation of the clones. The kaminonion tells obiwan this in AOTC. Therefore Palpatine DID NOT have them made.

Whats his name tells Obi that Sifo asked for a clone army to be created. Which is far less important to the story than who was actually behind the creation of the clone army; Dooku.

A first time viewer might miss the "I was recruited by a man named Tyrannus" line, but thats where one of the beauties of these films lies, going back and picking up things you didnt before.

This post has been edited by jariten: 20 March 2006 - 09:33 AM

[Despondent]

A first time viewer might miss the "I was recruited by a man named Tyrannus" line, but thats where one of the beauties of these films lies, going back and picking up things you didnt before.

That's the beauty of the OT anyway. Once seen and put down (no pun intended), the PT tends to rest on the shelf at wal-mart far as I'm concerned. That's ok, Jariten. You can watch if for me.

[Jejef Thgaron]

no no no.

Listen, if you want to come out with this stuff and put it in a post then fine. In fact, i'd like to read it.

But you can't do that (make statements based on things that DONT APPEAR IN THE FILMS) then berate someone else for doing the same thing.

Thats just wrong.

and
Whats his name tells Obi that Sifo asked for a clone army to be created. Which is far less important to the story than who was actually behind the creation of the clone army; Dooku.

A first time viewer might miss the "I was recruited by a man named Tyrannus" line, but thats where one of the beauties of these films lies, going back and picking up things you didnt before.

I concur with everything you have said, except for a few details:
Palpatine and the Senate sent Sifo Dyas to Kamino to order the Clones to be created. The Jedi Council was never aware until Obi-Wan was duped into following Jango Fett's footprints. Dooku killed Sifo Dyas to cover his own tracks. Palpatine duped both the Senate and Sifo Dyas into creating the Clones to serve the Republic. Sifo Dyas had to be killed if Palpatine was to eventually take control of the army. Sifo Dyas "disappeared mysteriously" because he was murdered and kept cryogenically frozen by Dooku to give Grievous a blood transfusion. I'm not quoting this from the books, it's in the databanks on Starwars.com.

Dooku is not a Sith, and he never was one to begin with, he is merely acting as a Sith. That's where Asajj Ventress and Grievous come in to the picture as Sith apprentices. Dooku was only a rogue Jedi that was tired of the corruption in the Republic and in the Council. Yes, he did use dark side powers, but he wasn't really a Sith, but more of a dark Jedi. I'm not making this up, it's in the SW databank... but I also read about it in 3 different books. The books aren't exactly canon, but the SW databank on Starwars.com is about as close as it gets.

What we are all forgetting is that this whole scheme is being plotted by one person, Darth Sidious. Even the attempted assassination of Padme... set up by Sidious. The crappy changeling bounty hunter... ordered to fail an attempt of assassinating Padme to get Obi-Wan to follow her. Sidious could foresee the Jedi finding the Clone Army and he led them right to Kamino. It is all an elaborate plan to eat away at the crumbling Republic from within to eventually take over. The only major obstacle in Sidious' way were the Jedi. Again... on the databank at Starwars.com.

All of the major details are in the films. If you want the minor details about the backstories of all the supporting characters, it's in the databank. Next, you'll be making a rule about Starwars.com not being canon, so you can continue to bash GL for making the PT.

What would you think if I told you that this forum is now under the direct control of a Sith Lord?

[Despondent]

What would you think if I told you that this forum is now under the direct control of a Sith Lord?

I'd high-tail it out and hide in a bog, I reckon. Or a hole in the ground. Isn't that what I'm s'posed to do?

[Jejef Thgaron]

I'd high-tail it out and hide in a bog, I reckon. Or a hole in the ground. Isn't that what I'm s'posed to do?

If the Sith fringe benefits were good, I'd say join.

[barend]

What would you think if I told you that this forum is now under the direct control of a Sith Lord?

i'd say; no it's not, i just have a high post count.

[barend]

no no no.

Listen, if you want to come out with this stuff and put it in a post then fine. In fact, i'd like to read it.

But you can't do that (make statements based on things that DONT APPEAR IN THE FILMS) then berate someone else for doing the same thing.

Thats just wrong.

i'm not spinning this of my own mind, it's what the most deducable and credible explanation anyone would take from the information given...

Jesus Christ, i even explained why....

you're just choosing to argue for the hell of it...

and taking my argument out of context...

i was complaining about the use of materials outside of the film to complete the story as a means of justifying loose ends and underdeveloped subplots made to clear a thoroughfare for overdeveloped parapsuedosubplots!!!

which is a completely different to my connection of the dots, that if i, in any way, have wrong is through no fault of my own. But becuase dots were seriously misplaced... I was merely beleiving what the films were saying...

and
Whats his name tells Obi that Sifo asked for a clone army to be created. Which is far less important to the story than who was actually behind the creation of the clone army; Dooku.

A first time viewer might miss the "I was recruited by a man named Tyrannus" line, but thats where one of the beauties of these films lies, going back and picking up things you didnt before.

of course jango saying that was to lead obiwan to Tyrannus... the guy was badly set up and used.
obiwan was lead like an anikan. HE was lead to beleive he was taking the clones from the seperatists and delivering them to the republic to dismiss suspicion of Palpatine. Its one of the more interesting plot sandwiches i found to be a tad meatier than the rest...

i didn't miss anything... i think it's funnily enough, the gushers who missed a majority. They accuse those of us with higher standards of watching with closed minds, but it wasn't i who filtered out and blocked major story points and confessions that were there