LEft out of the Bible is the old and new testament all there is?
#61
Posted 01 March 2006 - 02:48 AM
Spoon: what MC said about the law and the food and all that. The "Peter's dream" story, told by Luke the non-eyewitness, does not ring true, and reads like someone was trying to reconcile the two groups of early Christians, those that were Jewish and thought that all Christians should be as Christ was (even his last meal was Kosher), and those that were Hellenistic and ate blood sometimes sacrificed to other gods. Jesus never said anything about it (that bit about "what goes into you does not make you unclean" is NOT about eating pork and shellfish), so this business recorded by Paul's personal biographer is dubious at best. It's funny, but in the book of Acts, Peter's only real purpose seems to be to have this dream and then he pretty much disappears. Jesus said it was on Peter he would build His church, but all the theology comes from Paul and the Gospel of John. The way I see it, Vhristianity was derailed right from the start, from a Jewish sect devoted to the writings of Moses and Isaiah to a gnostic mystery cult devoted to the secret sayings and miracles of Jesus and His followers. I blame Paul for that.
#62
Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:11 AM
This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 01 March 2006 - 03:11 AM
#63
Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:19 AM
#64
Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:33 AM
And my point with the love thing was that saying something doesn't comply with logic doesn't make it automatically wrong and/or horrible. (And no, you cannot *see* love. You can see the manifestations of love. You can see a mother give her child a kiss, you can see two lovers holding hands, you can see a man sacrifice his life for a friend. But you cannot see the actual concept of love as an object itself, such as seeing a chair, or a lion, or an apple. One could argue it's the same with God - one cannot (usually) *see* whichever higher being in question, but can see the manifestations of this higher being, whether it be randomness and chaos of Eris, or a miracle of God, or seeing the world as a manifestation of its creator, etc etc.)
God is love. Love is God. To me, seeing love is seeing God. Of course this isn't enough to convince anyone of any higher being's existence (not even myself), nor am I trying for it to be. I guess I'm just going off on a tangent.
#66
Posted 01 March 2006 - 04:31 AM
It's more into peace and love for all. I'm not insulting you, I just don't understand why you're so bent on Jesus when the bible clearly speaks about God's wrath, judgement, and eternal damnation for unrepented sinners.
Do you think these versus are wrong? Last time you tried to say that the bible was not talking about hell, but the magma core of planet earth. I mean, that sounds really far fetched. I don't understand why you insist on Christ being God when you don't like the idea of him getting mad and being a ruler (which does entail him to punish)
#67
Posted 01 March 2006 - 06:42 AM
You're not? I am rather disappointed. I thought we could argue some more and perhaps reach a consensus, but if you'd rather not then ok.
Still, since I never said, as you nicely put it that "all people who hold religious beliefs are uniformly idiotic without a single reasonable thought from dawn to dusk", I don't want people think that these were my words. May I remind you what I said in the first place "religions will survive because pople do not like to think for themselves" Religions, meaning organised religions like Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Organised religion with dogmas and truths provide people with very convenient tenets which provide ready answers for situations in life, without the need of thinking.
Do you really think that any of those rabid Muslims who burnt Danish embassy ever stopped to think that perhaps it is not quite like the mullas tell them? I bet most of them did not even see the cartoons, but they were ready with violence when someone told them that their sacred faith is in danger fom some cartoonist.
Morality is never black and white, there are never clear-cut answers to moral dillemas in life. Organised religion, however, usurps the role of "morality", thus condemning any people who have other views. And people cling to these beliefs, however false and morally dubious to other people they might be.
Anyway, I stop now, and you may think of me what you will.
[...]
God is love. Love is God. To me, seeing love is seeing God. Of course this isn't enough to convince anyone of any higher being's existence (not even myself), nor am I trying for it to be. I guess I'm just going off on a tangent.
I never said that when something doesn't comply with logit it makes it horrible. I only say, that I cannot believe in God, because I can't see any proof of it.
As to the "manifaestation of love" -looks like you are discovering Platon and Aristotle again and the discussion about Platonic "ideas" and manifestation of ideas in real life.
I cannot really argue with a statement "God is love, Love is God" There is nothing to argue about. If you see it like that, and derive some meaning from this statement, fine, but to me it means nothing.
Jordan, did Spoon really say that? Can you quote it? I think Spoon has "personalised" system of beliefs , which is pretty eclectic and esotheric and has little to do with organised religion.
#68
Posted 01 March 2006 - 07:52 AM
At the end of the day, if what I do makes me happy and doesn't harm you, then please let me be.
Everything that 'religion' is distressed by - homosexuality, drugs etc - comes down in the end to ... is it hurting anyone?
If not then let it be.
If so then stop.
We all have a limited amount of heartbeats, time is precious, I intend to use it making myself happy.
#69
Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:48 PM
Spoon: If you've ever read the Principia, you'd understand that I can completely be both agnostic and Discordian. And I see your point, and I probably only argued in favor of seeing love and not God because I misunderstood you, and I was thinking of manifestations when I typed that. Being in love, my opinions are horribly biased, and being agnostic, they are also biased, and being Discordian, theyfnord.
The touble with people is that it's so easy to use inductive reasoning to prove something you already think is true, and it seems that we gravitate toward that far too effortlessly. People say "I believe there is a god/goddess" and then find evidence that proves that but overlook evidence to the contrary. And then people say "I believe there is no god/goddess" and then find evidence to prove that but also overlook evidence to the contrary. I'm not accusing anybody of that, I'm just griping about my own stupid brain when it tries to play tricks with me and using a relevant example. *sigh* I really shouldn't be allowed to think until I can utilize my brain properly.
#70
Posted 01 March 2006 - 01:07 PM
#71
Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:09 PM
Anyways, someone asked me if that presenter I talked about was published, and a thing or too else.
Well
Click Here
I honestly don't know how relevant the book is because I have not read it, but it also has some of the guy's background info on the page. Just so you know that I'm not just making things up.
Also, keep in mind that I did not agree with everything he said.
I'll have that information soon, I'm just having trouble downloading the file for some reason. It wouldn't work for my computer because I don't have the program to open it up. My school's computer just won't accept it or something. (It's on a slide show program)
"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto
Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
#72
Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:32 PM
9 The next day, as they were traveling and nearing the city, Peter went up to pray on the housetop at about noon. 10 Then he became hungry and wanted to eat, but while they were preparing something he went into a visionary state. 11 He saw heaven opened and an object coming down that resembled a large sheet being lowered to the earth by its four corners. 12 In it were all the four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth, and the birds of the sky. 13 Then a voice said to him, "Get up, Peter; kill and eat!" 14 "No, Lord!" Peter said. "For I have never eaten anything common and unclean!" 15 Again, a second time, a voice said to him, "What God has made clean, you must not call common." 16 This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into heaven.
sound like god just cleansed that particular spread...
what version is that anyway... it sounds pretty vague...
This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into heaven.
so peter didn't even eat it... what did the voice have to say about that?
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#73
Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:48 PM
i think there's a vague reference somewhere...
niether does the bible, technically.
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)