[Dr Lecter]

This is a topic to discuss the CIA's cock-ups around the world. I think we should start with Chile.

http://en.wikipedia....ugusto_Pinochet

Here's the overview: A democratically elected leader takes control of Chile. Although he isn't a communist or marxist, he is anti-capitalism. He made very popular reforms that lay the ground works for Chile to develop economically. The Nixon admin feared that he might nationalise some American bussinesses. Now, the CIA do what Americans do best: makes something that wasn't a major problem, into one of the worse human rights violations in modern history.

You've guessed it! They funded a man called Augusto Pinochet, the commander of the army, to take over the country in a military coup. Now, incase you can't guess the outcome of this, he massacres thousands of men, women and children, whom are his "enemies". Now, this a great move for the Americans in their fight to bring... wait what was that thing they wanted to bring to the country... oh yes, a fascist military dictactorship! Wow! What a great achievement!

Oh yes, discuss

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 14 June 2006 - 11:42 AM

[Otal Nimrodi]

Hmm... Bad or Terrible? Good question. Is this overall, or just this?

[Dr Lecter]

I was thinking maybe we would discuss each thing that they fucked up, but you can just give a general opinion of the CIA if you want. I mean there are still plenty of others they fucked up, Cambodia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

I think that the CIA's actions in Chile go well this quote: "...in Britain, empire was justified as a benevolent “white man’s burden.” And in the United States, empire does not even exist; “we” are merely protecting the causes of freedom, democracy, and justice worldwide."- Unknown

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 14 June 2006 - 02:58 PM

[Kirby]

The fun thing about the CIA is that all their failures are put out into the public eye while their successes are classified into obscurity.

So basically the more you hear about them the more they are screwing up. Just watch the news and if you ever hear those three letters you know something is wrong.

[Cobnat]

This is a topic to discuss the CIA's cock-ups around the world. I think we should start with Chile.

http://en.wikipedia....ugusto_Pinochet

Here's the overview: A democratically elected leader takes control of Chile. Although he isn't a communist or marxist, he is anti-capitalism. He made very popular reforms that lay the ground works for Chile to develop economically. The Nixon admin feared that he might nationalise some American bussinesses. Now, the CIA do what Americans do best: makes something that wasn't a major problem, into one of the worse human rights violations in modern history.

You've guessed it! They funded a man called Augusto Pinochet, the commander of the army, to take over the country in a military coup. Now, incase you can't guess the outcome of this, he massacres thousands of men, women and children, whom are his "enemies". Now, this a great move for the Americans in their fight to bring... wait what was that thing they wanted to bring to the country... oh yes, a fascist military dictactorship! Wow! What a great achievement!

Oh yes, discuss

The United States doesnt care who is on thier side, it doesnt matter wether thier facists, murderers, child rapists, it really doesnt, they need all the help they can get, mainly becouse thier arent alot of people outside of America who support the US.

I was thinking maybe we would discuss each thing that they fucked up, but you can just give a general opinion of the CIA if you want. I mean there are still plenty of others they fucked up, Cambodia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

You forgetting about 50 other countries...

[Deepsycher]

I just think of them as the Central Interrogations Agency. That could be how they get their intelligence.

[Otal Nimrodi]

You forgetting about 50 other countries...

He can't say all of them in one post, can he?

[Cobnat]

He can't say all of them in one post, can he?

True... Plus he would have to remember all the small ones with the long hard names like Ukabecameccahellastan.

[civilian_number_two]

The United States doesnt care who is on thier side, it doesnt matter wether thier facists, murderers, child rapists, it really doesnt, they need all the help they can get, mainly becouse thier arent alot of people outside of America who support the US.
You forgetting about 50 other countries...

Worldwide, the US was remembered as the country that did the most to bring about the end of WWII, and its process (liberate and establish US business, rather than incorporate and control) was respected the world over. It was only in the 70s that the US really started digging its heels into foreign markets using its military as its closer. What it did in WWII was successful, but at least there was a reasonable pretext. Since then the country has been going out of its way to manufacture pretexts to keep the ball rolling. Business and military are doing well, so yeah, the thing works, and no, naturally, not a lot of peoiple worldwide support that sort of behaviour. Why should they?

[Dr Lecter]

Worldwide, the US was remembered as the country that did the most to bring about the end of WWII, and its process (liberate and establish US business, rather than incorporate and control) was respected the world over. It was only in the 70s that the US really started digging its heels into foreign markets using its military as its closer. What it did in WWII was successful, but at least there was a reasonable pretext. Since then the country has been going out of its way to manufacture pretexts to keep the ball rolling. Business and military are doing well, so yeah, the thing works, and no, naturally, not a lot of peoiple worldwide support that sort of behaviour. Why should they?

That's nice, but where was America at the start of the war? Sitting back putting Britain into debt for two years. While America was just kicking back, Britian had to fight Germany, Austria, Italy, Japan, not to mention the lands occupied by the Axis forces. Obviously had the empire and the dominions, but still, the only other allies that Britain had were Poland and France, and they were occupied before the war really got underway.

About your point about the US being remembered for bring an end to it, I think you should talk to someone outside of America. No-one remembers that.

Finally, I don't get what you're point is, you're saying that we should thank CIA installing military dictactorships around the world? You're saying that we should thank America for looking for countries to invade and fuck them up even more than they are already? You're saying that we should thank America for the all the sweat shops around the world? You're saying we should thank America for having a poverty that would put most African nations to shame?

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 15 June 2006 - 01:10 PM

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

Myself and my parents all have worked for or currently still do for the CIA.

Sorry.

This post has been edited by MyPantsAreOnFire: 15 June 2006 - 04:38 PM

[Cobnat]

Worldwide, the US was remembered as the country that did the most to bring about the end of WWII,

And ofcourse, before that they were known as the only people who defied the League of Nations and SOLD GUNS TO THE NAZIS!

and its process (liberate and establish US business, rather than incorporate and control) was respected the world over. It was only in the 70s that the US really started digging its heels into foreign markets using its military as its closer. What it did in WWII was successful, but at least there was a reasonable pretext. Since then the country has been going out of its way to manufacture pretexts to keep the ball rolling. Business and military are doing well, so yeah, the thing works, and no, naturally, not a lot of peoiple worldwide support that sort of behaviour. Why should they?

I see were on the same page here...

That's nice, but where was America at the start of the war? Sitting back putting Britain into debt for two years. While America was just kicking back, Britian had to fight Germany, Austria, Italy, Japan, not to mention the lands occupied by the Axis forces. Obviously had the empire and the dominions, but still, the only other allies that Britain had were Poland and France, and they were occupied before the war really got underway.

Please Britian is just as bad as the US, what did Britian do when Italy decided to attack Ethiopia? What did Britian do when Japan attacked and then began horrible never before seen atrocities on the Chinesse? What did Britian do when Germany decided to annex Austria? What did Britian do when Germany took over Chechoslovakia (a known ally)? Nothing, thats what, Britian could have attacked long ago while Italy and Germany were still weak, but they didnt, and I say...

"Inaction is just as bad as action"

This post has been edited by Cobnat: 15 June 2006 - 08:21 PM

[Slade]

How did the US "put Britain into debt"? And Roosevelt wanted to go to war from the beginning, but Congress wouldn't let him (and unlike Teddy, he actually respected the balance of powers), and it took Pearl Harbor slipping through the cracks to give him the leverge he needed to attack Japan (and then naturally progress to Europe).

[Cobnat]

How did the US "put Britain into debt"? And Roosevelt wanted to go to war from the beginning, but Congress wouldn't let him (and unlike Teddy, he actually respected the balance of powers), and it took Pearl Harbor slipping through the cracks to give him the leverge he needed to attack Japan (and then naturally progress to Europe).

After WW2 Britain owned the USA and other allies over 6,000,000 pounds (I dont know how much that is in US dollars) mainly becouse of Lend-Lease.

[civilian_number_two]

That's nice, but where was America at the start of the war? Sitting back putting Britain into debt for two years. While America was just kicking back, Britian had to fight Germany, Austria, Italy, Japan, not to mention the lands occupied by the Axis forces. Obviously had the empire and the dominions, but still, the only other allies that Britain had were Poland and France, and they were occupied before the war really got underway.

About your point about the US being remembered for bring an end to it, I think you should talk to someone outside of America. No-one remembers that.

Finally, I don't get what you're point is, you're saying that we should thank CIA installing military dictactorships around the world? You're saying that we should thank America for looking for countries to invade and fuck them up even more than they are already? You're saying that we should thank America for the all the sweat shops around the world? You're saying we should thank America for having a poverty that would put most African nations to shame?

I live outside the US. The US was popular after WWII. Its popularity has waned and it has become a frightening superpower since the 70s.

You didn't need to read between the lines ... in case you didn't read the lines themselves, that was my point. That American military might is being used unjustly now, but that Americans shouldn't post on websites with "Americans may as well invade all over the place, since everyone hates them anyway." Fact is, and this was my point, people in Western Europe, even the defeated Germany, loved Americans in the 50s (the Dutch loved Canadians and Brits more). So America-bashing has nothing to do with jealousy of a powerful country. It's about fear and outrage. So no, I wasn't making any argument in favour of CIA support of foreign deictatorships. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Your argument that America was of no help, and is not remembered for contributing to WWII and helping to bring it to an end, is weakened when you add "why didn't they help sooner?" Not only is the answer easily delivered (thank you Slade), but it tempts the question "If they were useless and ineffectual, who cares when they got involved?" And if they did no good and are therefore not remembered for doing any good, then no, it wasn't America that put England into debt when the Germans were bombing them. It was Germany. Sheesh.