[Lord Aquaman]

Late last night, a question popped into my mind - does George Lucas have any redeeming qualities? I wondered for a moment, and this is about the best I could think of -

1) So far George has not murdered any actual living people
2) So far George has not kidnapped anyone
3) So far George has not raped anyone
4) George has never appeared in any internet sex videos [[COUGH:aris-Trash-Hilton::COUGH]]

Can you think of anymore?

[Harmonica]

That depends. Are we talking about the young, aspiring Filmmaker with a dream that George Lucas used to be, or the megalomaniacal, crazy billionaire husk of lunacy that Middle-age and Greed have transformed him into?

[CowboyCurtis]

He's charitable. Gives a lot of money to unnamed funds. Loves his family, but punishes them by putting them in make-up and dress and sticking them in his movies... So, he's a good disciplinarian. He does seem to love his kids. He also seems less in a shell, too.

His Skywalker Editing Studios he lets friends use when they're in a pinch. He rewards people who are loyal and work hard for him. He has modest tastes and frugal.

I mean, there are things I really hate about the guy and I think he's messed up, but he's got good qualities, too. So, I can't say he's a total devil.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 14 January 2006 - 12:07 AM

[Revan-47]

he made the indy movies

he didnt totally screw up the third star wars

he made star wars in the first place

he cares about kids

[jariten]

if Lucas only made the PT for money, I wonder why he didn't include product placement?

[Smashman]

I don't hate George Lucas. I have just lost a lot of respect for him, after the PT and SEs.

[Sailor Abbey]

1) So far George has not murdered any actual living people
2) So far George has not kidnapped anyone
3) So far George has not raped anyone
4) George has never appeared in any internet sex videos [[COUGH:aris-Trash-Hilton::COUGH]]

These qualities hardly begin to atone for the atrocities which have been committed since TPM.

George Lucas sex video? Oh god I got a wicked visual...

[diligent_d]

if Lucas only made the PT for money, I wonder why he didn't include product placement?

I'm sure if he could, he would have.

[KurganX]

I'm sure if he could, he would have.

Just because he doesn't have a big Pepsi or Dominos Pizza logo in the background on Coruscant doesn't mean he doesn't use product placement in these movies!

You forget that Star Wars is virtually its own product placement. They're selling you the brand name which is attached to numerous products which Lucas directly profits from (a wise move made back with the original Star Wars). So every vehicle, character, etc. is represented in a toy vehicle, action figure, etc. Plus CG lends itself to easily recognization in video games, with the action playing out onscreen even more closely to what you'd play.

So when you see a long pod race, repetative killing of battle droids/clones, lightsaber battles, that cool alien or walker.. that's your video game... that's your toy. Even characters and vehicles that are only visible onscreen in the background or for a few seconds are immortalized as a product. And many such products came out BEFORE the world-wide release of the movie.

So not only are the Prequels a big commercial for Star Wars (insisting that you watch the other movies as well, and read the books to fill in the "gaps") but all the merchandise created for them.

And finally, the Prequels have also been, as others have pointed out, a "tech demo" or commercial for ILM special effects. Obviously this doesn't apply to the average movie-goer, but is to demonstrate to other filmmakers "you too can have awsesome fx like this if you hook up with us and our services."

[jariten]

I don't know where to begin with that one.

Actually, I can't be bothered anymore (right now anyway). Thats it, the PT is vunerable to the same critisicms that the OT is magically invunerable too.

You repeat "the prequels, the prequels, the prequels" like a mantra. Try replacing them with the words "the Empire Strikes Back" and see how it fits.

[civilian_number_two]

Jariten, product placement is valuable only to reduce a film's budget. And NO film yet, not even The Wizard, had paid its way on product placement alone.

But KurganX is right that the STAR WARS films are their own product placement. The movies are about selling toys as much as telling their own stories. There are other action films, and those films have dolls made about them. Even the Disney cartoons see some accompanying marketing. But the marketing of a STAR WARS film is something unique. There is not a single incidental character or site gag that has not been made into a toy complete with backstory not developed in the films but developed specially for the extra-celluloid marketing. Lucafilm.com boasts that its licensing of "related entertainment properties" accounts for $8 billion in consumer sales worldwide. This includes the books and comics as well as the toys, but you can see that the films account for less than a quarter of the total STAR WARS revenues.

Backing up, there is nothing wrong with making a film with the primary motivation being to make money. Nothing at all. It's just too bad Lucas didn't decide to make fun movies that could be enjoyed again and again. I can't speak for the other two prequels, but TPM was a yawn-fest.

[jariten]

But KurganX is right that the STAR WARS films are their own product placement. The movies are about selling toys as much as telling their own stories. There are other action films, and those films have dolls made about them. Even the Disney cartoons see some accompanying marketing. But the marketing of a STAR WARS film is something unique. There is not a single incidental character or site gag that has not been made into a toy complete with backstory not developed in the films but developed specially for the extra-celluloid marketing. Lucafilm.com boasts that its licensing of "related entertainment properties" accounts for $8 billion in consumer sales worldwide. This includes the books and comics as well as the toys, but you can see that the films account for less than a quarter of the total STAR WARS revenues.

Yes, I understand and agree with all that. What I don't understand is when people trot these arguments out to take another swing at the PT, as if marketing and merchandising are new PT-introduced entities. OK, you didn’t do that, fair enough, but check a little further up.

[Revan-47]

if Lucas only made the PT for money, I wonder why he didn't include product placement?

Did you catch the PSP in RotS?

[KurganX]

Did you catch the PSP in RotS?

I know what scene you're referring to, but even without doing a screencap I can say that was NOT a sony psp.

Actually to me it looked like a nokia n-gage or the GP32, both failed handheld systems that wouldn't be as familiar to the audience.

But I guess somebody (or me when I'm not too lazy) need to take a screencap and check. It did look very modern video-game-ish. I could even see the analog stick the side! Who says they don't play video games in the Star Wars Galaxy, but up till now we've only seen holochess and gambling.


Anyway, to reply to the apparent criticisms of my post above. I have NOT said that the Classic Trilogy does not also engage in marketing and product placement within the movies. Obviously this began with the first film and was a brilliant decision by Lucas, and probably what made him rich in the first place, allowing him to pursue his dreams of making more and bigger budget sequels and prequels. Hurrah for him there, no problem. I'm merely pointing out that it exists AND to counter the idea that
"oh, these movies weren't about making money, because if they were, they would have had product placement, and they didn't, so there!"

Hopefully I've shown why such an excuse can't be made. The point of my argument was not to say "down with the prequels, but praise the pristine perfection of the original trilogy!".. that polemic was read into my post where none was intended.

No on a different note:

If nothing else, the advanced technology of video games has caught up enough to the visuals onscreen that games can be churned out more quickly that put the viewer in the same situation as the characters onscreen. Sure the vector Star Wars game was awesome at the time and very popular because it was the best thing going for Star Wars liscensed properties in the arcade, but I think you can see what I'm getting at. Lucas and company has had six movies now to perfect his craft, so I wouldn't expect him to suddenly stop doing what he's doing, but rather increase it.

However, even though TPM was a huge success financially, the marketing for it was way overdone. Stores were packed with unsold merchandise and the many lackluster and sub-bar video game tie-ins that were made, and many fans berated the film afterwards. People spoiled themselves silly for this movie, with the huge internet culture that was in place just waiting for the anticipation of the fans beforehand. The trailers were COOL, the people ate it up. The movie was heavily overexposed. People thought this was going to be the magic of 1977 all over again, except bigger and better. Then, after lights came back up and the popcorn was digested and the party was over, disappointment set in.

It's now considered by many, even those who love the prequels, as the least of the three (though I've talked to a handful of people who say everything about all three prequels is perfect, including Jar Jar, go figure, there's also people who love everything star wars, period). The fact is a ton of people waited in line, sometimes for MONTHS to see TPM for the first time. Once they saw it, and were disappointed and word got round, that was it, for many of them. Sure, they loyally attended AOTC and ROTS, just to see things get better, but there you go. A lot of movies are heavily hyped, have a huge opening, and then flounder after that.

Sure, we have the advent of home video, but surely Star Wars coming back to theaters five times was a phenomenon, while TPM only came back once.

In any case, I think much of ANH is slow, and has a snazzy finish. The same could be said of TPM, but even moreso, unfortunately. It has its ups and downs. I like the manipulation of Palpatine and the lightsaber action. The visual style takes some getting used to (too much brown and gray for my taste, though when you think about it, that's close to ANH as well with the Tatooine vs. Death Star hues). The films share much in common, but I think ANH is clearly the superior one. The characters feel more alive and personal, rather than just set pieces in this larger drama of galactic proportions. You have people you could see as your real life friends or enemies, not just talking heads on CNN or somebody you read about in the newspaper as being important.

This post has been edited by KurganX: 17 January 2006 - 01:54 AM

[Darth Player]

if Lucas only made the PT for money, I wonder why he didn't include product placement?

In ATOC, a number of LFL video games are displayed in the bar/club where Obi Wan looks for the assassin and turns down the "Deathsticks". In ROTS, Anakin holds a PSP video game when he hears Palpatine beckoning/and senses Padme met with Obi Wan. There are others. All this proves that despite your praise fopr the PT, you don't seem like someone who watched it. And I doubt those placements were done out of the graciousness of his heart for free. I'm surprised the Burger King with his big assed fiberglass head didn't appear popped into the cantina scene in the Special Edition of ANH on the DVD.

And all those of you who cite GL's kids, have you seen the size of them? They're obese despite the fact that the Skywalker Ranch had all organically grown produce.

He did give us Carrie Fisher in a metal bikini to call back to another post. That alone is worth overlooking a lot.