[jariten]

Isn't your favorite argument, PT = OT ?
aren't they all pop corn movies as in switch off your brain and go for the ride?

They're all "switch off your brain and go for the ride".

All 6 are built around that idea.

I never said that they were all equal in quality though.

But I do say, and will always say, that I wish that people would judge the PT using the same criteria that they use to judge the OT.

[Despondent]

But I do say, and will always say, that I wish that people would judge the PT using the same criteria that they use to judge the OT.

OT: Positive Emotional response and feeling toward the characters.

PT: Emotional response: "That was awful."



Maybe you just wish people that visit here often, shared your view.


It ain't gonna happen.

[jariten]

Maybe you just wish people that visit here often, shared your view.

nah.

[Sailor Abbey]

I wish that people would judge the PT using the same criteria that they use to judge the OT.

I'm pretty sure thats what they do and thats why they hate it.

[civilian_number_two]

They're all "switch off your brain and go for the ride".

All 6 are built around that idea.

I never said that they were all equal in quality though.

But I do say, and will always say, that I wish that people would judge the PT using the same criteria that they use to judge the OT.

Jariten, I get your point, and it is 100% valid. As you know I disagree, based on different criteria:

The OT were open and honest homages to science fiction books, serials, and films. Some other films famously were used for inspiration as well. We all had fun watching them, and yes as a child I had already seen Flash Gordon on tv and recognized those references. I learned of Dune and the Lensmen much later; these tidbits of trivia enriched the experience, much in the way that PULP FICTION is more interesting when you get the numerous references it makes.

By the PT Lucas claimed that all of his inspiration had been myths and legends, and not science fiction at all. He had publicly disavowed his sources and named only one, Joseph Campbell, who of course was not a source at all, and stuff completely irrelevant, like the Aeneid and Metamorphosis.

It is therefore impossible to look at the PT with the same optimism I had when watching the first three films. Even though I don't really like JEDI, it is in its own way at least an honest attempt to end the series. Weighed down with delusions of grandeur, the prequels are a load of pretentious bullshit. It becomes impossible to shut your brain off and enjoy the ride when the author tells you that it is all a part of an ancient mythological tradition. Moreso, it is impossible to keep your brain ON, looking for those references and the weight of historical storytelling, since, well, it's not there. The PT is not as clever as it promises to be, and not as fun as it should be. It's somewhere in the middle: dumb and pretentious at the same time, managing to insult on the one hand and bore on the other.

To say nothing at all of Jar Jar, who on his own could have ruined any series.

[Fusion Rifle]

The whole thing was culled, shot for shot, from old WW2 archive footage.

So what? Who cares? I say taking inspiration from WW2 archive footage was a creative move given the space opera setting.

can you offer an objective critisicm of the podrace that can't also be leveled at that space battle? (they made a video game out of it too, so theres your first one gone )

Yes. The space battle in Episode IV was realistic given its technological limitations (no, I don't mean the special effects, they were great, I mean the entire idea that spacefaring nations would do battle using piloted fighters, but that's space opera for you). The pod race on the other hand went on in such an insane pace and over such an overwrought racetrack that it would have been humanely impossible for a grown man to survive it, let alone an abnoxious ten year old.
It was unrealistic, impossible to believe in, special effects over substance, silly in its execution and characters, boring, and downright bad moviemaking.

P.S: Beside the podrace, another basic condition leading to a PT that sucked (taken freely from the heap) was Lucas decision to make it the story of Anakin Skywalker, rather than the history of the late republic. Any sane depiction of the era would have Anakin enter in the second or perhaps rather the third installment, not making him a main character from chapter one, page one. I'm not interested in the wild times of an unbearable 10 year old brat with superhuman Jedipowers who can't act (not that he was given any meaningful direction while also having to cope with a worthless script, of course).
The series should have had a longer timespan. Anakin Skywalker shouldn't even have been born yet in Episode One, neither should there have been a Senator Palpatine plotting all along to overthrow the republic. That's simpleminded.

This post has been edited by Fusion Rifle: 13 June 2006 - 07:05 AM

[georgelucas4greedo]

By the PT Lucas claimed that all of his inspiration had been myths and legends, and not science fiction at all. He had publicly disavowed his sources and named only one, Joseph Campbell, who of course was not a source at all, and stuff completely irrelevant, like the Aeneid and Metamorphosis.

100% correct, but for both triologies. If you look at the rules of fantasy literature, you will realize that both the OT and the PT are fantasy and not science fiction.

As for Metamorphosis, Kafka and Lucas have about as much in common as a wookie and a Gungan

[Jedi_1138]

@FusionRifle
100% agreed. Making Anakin the 'hero' of the PT was a bad creative decision. Actually, if I am not mistaken, GL even said that the whole Star Wars movies are about the "downfall and resurection of Anakin Skywalker."
Maybe it's just me, but I used to think that Luke, Han and Leia where the main characters of the OT. But what do I know?

And regarding the 'switch off your brain and go for the ride'. Yes, they're popcorn movies. For entertainment, not much more. But is it really to hard to ask for some likeable characters that behave according to the rules that have been established?

As for the sources...it's known that GL likes races. Stock Car or otherwise. But in the OT, they where used to give some tention. Not to show effect after effect.
It maybe would have been smarter to go back to some of the simple sources he had for the OT...from Flash Gordon to Akiri Korousawa.

Actually, it would have been smart to re-watch the OT before writing the first line of the TPM screenplay...

@georgelucas4greedo
Yeah...your statement abt Kafka & George Lucas is so true...

[civilian_number_two]

I actually meant Metamorphoses, plural, sorry, by the poet Ovid. It's a popular sourcebook or Greek and Roman legends.

[Despondent]

C3PO is a starpilot.



In Ep 4, Luke and goldenrod are looking in the desert for Artoo, and Luke says "that may be our him up ahead! Hit the Accelerator!!"

So, threepio can hit the throttle on a speeder. I'd say that qualifies him as the second best pilot old Ben Kenobi ever knew.

[CowboyCurtis]

As for Metamorphosis, Kafka and Lucas have about as much in common as a wookie and a Gungan

Honor debt? Except Chewie honored his and Jar Jar did not.

So, threepio can hit the throttle on a speeder. I'd say that qualifies him as the second best pilot old Ben Kenobi ever knew.

LOL!!

[mireaux7]

What exactly does NASCAR stand for in Tattooine though,.or even at ILM, for that matter?...(Neanderthal Assisted Subpar Computer Animation Renditions)

[miladyblue]

Neanderthal Assisted Subpar Computer Animation Renditions

And the "Nail on the Head" Award goes to....

Mireaux7!!

[Despondent]

What exactly does NASCAR stand for in Tattooine though,.or even at ILM, for that matter?...(Neanderthal Assisted Subpar Computer Animation Renditions)

Not A Serious Creative, A Realist.


Depends on where you draw the line.

[mireaux7]

...and RACECAR spelled backwards, is still RACECAR

...and RACECAR spelled backwards, is still RACECAR

whoa, didnt mean to throw that in there twice