[Zatoichi]

I am almost on the same complete page with Cowboy Curtis.

For me, Star Wars has been a huge part of my life. I'm nineteen, and the phenomena has been with me for just about ever. For years I've argued with friends, family, anyone really, who denied that Star Wars was not the greatest set of films and three of the greatest films of all time. I have seen many excellent films over the years, and many could be argued to be better, but none could have possibly ever been better. There was such a granduer about them that nothing else could compare. They changed the ways movies were made. They were to movies what the Beatles and Elvis were to Rock n' Roll, what the any of the great things in literature were to literature, what Picasso, DaVinci, and others were to art, etc etc. They held the essance of being classics no matter what. No matter what anyone says about ROTJ, it holds the culmination of it all. Darth Vader, the ultimate supervillain, who has never been there for his son, who as his enemy and as his father has inflicted great pain pain Luke both physical and mental, finally does what is right by saving his son's life and losing his own. Not only is that powerful, but it gives hope as well. The hope that people can change for the better and do the right thing.

Now, many years later, it is announced that a new trilogy will come out to show how it all began. Of couse I had high expectations, we all did. I hoped that it could have been even better, figured it would probably be just as good as, was not afraid at all that it could even possibly be bad. These films were going to open everybody's eyes as to why Star Wars was so great if they did not realize that the first time. Honestly, Star Wars is the main reason why I aspire to be involved in the movie making process including acting and screen writing among other things. I expect that with all that time and the technology that is out now, that I will be absolutely blown away. George Lucas was my god in the realm of movies. Then TPM comes out and not only am I not even blown away, I am severly disappointed. I would have easily accepted as good as, but this, this was heresay to me. Still, there were two more films, and I was sure that everything would be alright. The same thing happened with the second film. Again, I was let down, but there was still hope. The third film could tie it all together and enrich the experience of the previous two. Although it was much better, the third did not make up for the other two, much less itself. To top it off, even the OT has been messed with, and a poor job was done to improve it (Although I greatly enjoy the batter sound and picture quality).

Now, in my mind George Lucas has not only given to me one of the best things ever, but summarily destroyed it. He went from being to me the god of movie making to an object of my hatred. Jariten, you say that we don't judge the two trilogies on the same level. Let me tell you, the very few things that I can find that are bad within the OT are more than made up for by the rest of the film. I recognize the bad things, but I am generally not troubled by them. Throughout the PT there is only one piece to make up for anything, and that is the wonderful music. Some of the songs I even like much better than nearly all of the ones in the OT. Sadly, the music cannot do it alone. Do you really think that I enjoy hating something that is a part of something that I greatly cherish no matter what anyone says? I had more to say, but I think I'll just leave it at that.

[jariten]

This threads getting out of hand.
I just wanted to stick with comparing the podrace to the end battle of ANH to show how what people consider to be PT flaws have actually been part and parcel of SW since the very beginning.
I’m not trying to convince you to like the PT, or show you reasons why it’s “good”.
I’m mostly reacting to (well paid) critics. While some good, solid criticisms of the new films have been brought up, it seems to me to be mostly a case of them sticking their fingers in their ears and going “la la la”.
But when the original SW generation is dead and buried and ’77 nostalgia is out of the way, then maybe we’ll be able to get a clearer assessment of all the films in the press and elsewhere.
For me personally, there still hasn’t been anything to replace that particular part of my brain that loves popcorn movies and where SW lives.
Not LOTR, and certainly not the bloody Matrix.

[Despondent]

The herd is thinning, no mystery there. I'm certain revisionist history will live up to what you expect.


Then you can say that YOU were the first to rightly think as you do.

[Zatoichi]

Bah, it was hijacked. And I was born in '86 thank you very much. On top that it would still be some time before I watched them, so... I'm not a part of the original Star Wars generation (or... am I?) Augh I don't even know where I am trying to go with this, nevermind.

[CowboyCurtis]

Sorry... didn't mean to hijack the thread...

I like this much, Jariten...

For me personally, there still hasn’t been anything to replace that particular part of my brain that loves popcorn movies and where SW lives.

[Darth Player]

Lucas pretty much managed to parody himself and the original Star Wars craze with the PT, and I believe the whole thing was done to just show off the most expensive and interesting trailers in movie history three times in a row. Too bad that this time what was hyped didn't live up to it.....

[Despondent]

Right on. They were "star wars moment" inspiring at least. And at the most.

If he could've delivered those sequences to an excellent writer (under instruction to follow canon) for inspiration (animatics, if you will), we could really have had something. At least we had hope.

[Darth Player]

Right on. They were "star wars moment" inspiring at least. And at the most.

If he could've delivered those sequences to an excellent writer (under instruction to follow canon) for inspiration (animatics, if you will), we could really have had something. At least we had hope.

Delegating authority like that is another of GL's weaknesses, along with keeping the direction concise or communicating with the actors who want said direction. Too bad he managed to alienate almost everyone from the OT. Lawrence Kasdan could have delivered a kick ass PT.

[jariten]

Lawrence Kasdan could have delivered a kick ass PT.

Yeah, The Bodyguard was a classic.

[Darth Player]

Yeah, The Bodyguard was a classic.

So was Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Bodyguard was originally written for Steve McQueen to star in and there had to be something to the script in that it was still picked up and produced decades later.

Why do i get the feeling that if George Lucas decided to make an "art house" film of him taking a massive dump on a silver serving plate with an accompanying John Williams score that the gushers would defend THAT over the OT. Wait, he did do that with clever CGI camoflage here and there like Kubrick did in Eyes Wide Shut during the orgy scene, and called it the PT....

[Prequel dialogue coach]

Kasdan sure knew how to write a star wars film though.

[diligent_d]

Yeah, The Bodyguard was a classic.

At this point, I would put it slightly above AOTC.

[Darth Player]

Kasdan sure knew how to write a star wars film though.

Amen.

I watched the "Story of Star Wars" bonus thingie that's included in the OT DVD Boxed Set and he says he wanted to go with Harrison Ford's idea of killing off Han as a martyr to the Relel Alliance's cause or another major character (rumors abounded that at the end Lando would get it in an unsuccessful attempt to escape the Death Star aboard the Millennium Falcon as I'm sure you all know). This was deemed necessary becuase it would put the other characters fates in question, adding an element of suspense for the film. But Lucas had to have a big temper tanturm and he quit the Director's Guild, Writer's Guild, and a few others after paying the fine for not adding credits to the beginning of 5 and 6, instead of working out a solution. He couldn't hire Steven Speilberg, and the rest as we say is history. He surrponded himself with yes men at ILM and thought he could do it all himself with this team, whereas the documentary proves his ideas are best delegated to other people to come to fruition and make a film worth viewing and one that would remain for the ages. Kasdan knew what Lucas meant in the rough story outlines and delivered a kick ass treatment after Leigh brackett passed away. Lucas once knew how to pool the top talent and get a result that was art, and for some reason, he lost that ability during ROTJ's production.

[CowboyCurtis]

You really have to credit Kershner, though, too, because he did a lot of dialogue rewriting on the set. There's a story where Lucas and Kasdan came to the set and were watching the filming, when some of the dialogue was delivered, Lucas turned to Kas and asked, "is that how you wrote it?" and he said, "No, did you write that?" (I'm paraphrasing)

[Prequel dialogue coach]

Kasdan knew what Lucas meant in the rough story outlines and delivered a kick ass treatment after Leigh brackett passed away.

I mentioned this on IMDB, and someone said that empire and ROTJ are lucas' scripts, kasdan did only minor re-writes. they mentioned Leigh Brackett's scrip was discarded, i thought it was expanded on by Kasdan (he provided links to quotes about how apparantly kasdan said lucas wrote the films but i didn't read them)? I've read GL's biography, where kasdan labelled some of george's drafts as "terrible" and was susprised that GL wrote them. it might just be gusher fantasy though.

This post has been edited by Prequel dialogue coach: 19 January 2006 - 05:10 PM