[Gerhard]

I was (re)watching ESB DVD the other day, and got puzzled on how Luke found Bespin so easily, The only information he had was is own image of a "city in the clouds" as he told Yoda, and with Thousands of star systems in the galaxy, surely there are more cities above gas planets.

Anybody ever think of this?
Should be regarded as plot hole?

[Despondent]

Never bothered me much. After all, Luke found Dagobah on manual controls (I think the book explained the force controlled the ship.) Maybe if the force controlled the midichlorians in his ship, that would cause a problem with the way I see it.

[Gerhard]

Never bothered me much. After all, Luke found Dagobah on manual controls (I think the book explained the force controlled the ship.) Maybe if the force controlled the midichlorians in his ship, that would cause a problem with the way I see it.

To Degobah does not bother me, he had the name of the planet, there should be information on the X-Wing Computer, click Fly to Degobah, I don't see problems here.

Bespin he did not know anything, just the "city in the clouds" being helped by the Force is an explanation, but a weak one in my opinion

Another issue is, of all the places Luke could have landed in Degobah, he landed near Yoda's house, I mean, if you are visiting earth from another planet, and need to land on tokyo, without a map what are the chances of landing near it? 1% ?

Heir to the empire, by Timothy Zahn explains this, although is not canon, It opens the possibility that Yoda, using the Force, attracted the X-Wing to someplace near him, that explains Luke losing control entering Degobah's Atmosphere and it makes sense to me.

I see the Force more in that regard, an individual uses it for some purpose, I don't like the "it was the force will" stuff, because it implies the force being an inteligente spirit, or wave, or whatever, which is not the way I understand based on the Obi-Wan/Yoda Explanations. Well it's just my view on the thing of course.

[Darth Player]

I'd imagine that Luke managed to feel his way to Bespin because of feeling Han's screams and all when he's tortured through the Force. "They didn't even ask me any questions...."

[Gerhard]

I'd imagine that Luke managed to feel his way to Bespin because of feeling Han's screams and all when he's tortured through the Force. "They didn't even ask me any questions...."

It makes sense, however it's a shame that fully trained Jedi's could not find Kamino in Ep. 2 without the help of a map, well whatever, they couldnt even defend themself's of a bunch of regular troops except if it's important for the plot

[Darth Player]

It makes sense, however it's a shame that fully trained Jedi's could not find Kamino in Ep. 2 without the help of a map, well whatever, they couldnt even defend themself's of a bunch of regular troops except if it's important for the plot

They probably couldn't find Kamino because it was hidden by one of their own, although it was done in such a way so conspicuously that they DID end up finding it, so it was hidden in such a way as to be found, from a certain point of view.....

[Gerhard]

They probably couldn't find Kamino because it was hidden by one of their own, although it was done in such a way so conspicuously that they DID end up finding it, so it was hidden in such a way as to be found, from a certain point of view.....

If the Force helps one find what is looking for, why is the map thing so important in episode II?

[georgelucas4greedo]

But what are you going to do, spend a half hour of film on Luke searching for Yoda or the city in the clouds? Lets not get bogged down nit picking things that further or contribute to a plot, i.e. trying to figure out how that space worm survives, asking why Vader comissioned the easily seen AT ATs...See the reason why nitpicking ROTJ and the PT is because there is so much in there that ruins your perception of the legend of SW. I will go down as one of the most vicious ESB defenders of all time!!

[Gerhard]

But what are you going to do, spend a half hour of film on Luke searching for Yoda or the city in the clouds? Lets not get bogged down nit picking things that further or contribute to a plot, i.e. trying to figure out how that space worm survives, asking why Vader comissioned the easily seen AT ATs...See the reason why nitpicking ROTJ and the PT is because there is so much in there that ruins your perception of the legend of SW. I will go down as one of the most vicious ESB defenders of all time!!

Don't get me wrong, I love ESB and is one of only 3 movies I gave 10/10 in IMDB voting system.
it's a nitpick yes, but it's also one of the minor few flaws ESB has! I was just raising a discussion, and regarding ESB as one of the best films I've seen, I'm sure I'm not considered an anti-ESB troll

[KurganX]

To Degobah does not bother me, he had the name of the planet, there should be information on the X-Wing Computer, click Fly to Degobah, I don't see problems here.

Bespin he did not know anything, just the "city in the clouds" being helped by the Force is an explanation, but a weak one in my opinion

Another issue is, of all the places Luke could have landed in Degobah, he landed near Yoda's house, I mean, if you are visiting earth from another planet, and need to land on tokyo, without a map what are the chances of landing near it? 1% ?

Heir to the empire, by Timothy Zahn explains this, although is not canon, It opens the possibility that Yoda, using the Force, attracted the X-Wing to someplace near him, that explains Luke losing control entering Degobah's Atmosphere and it makes sense to me.

I see the Force more in that regard, an individual uses it for some purpose, I don't like the "it was the force will" stuff, because it implies the force being an inteligente spirit, or wave, or whatever, which is not the way I understand based on the Obi-Wan/Yoda Explanations. Well it's just my view on the thing of course.

The problem in the ROTS based EU (novelisation, spin off novels, etc) is that Dagobah was supposedly erased from the Jedi Archive star charts by Yoda, just like Dooku had previously done with Kamino in AOTC. So if this planet was "lost" (it wasn't a major planet anyway, apparently) for 20 years, how was Luke able to find it on some star chart? We can ignore this EU thing as a continuity error, or perhaps it was rediscovered after ROTS (but if so, why didn't the Empire catch on that Yoda had erased it and go investigate? After all, wouldn't they think to use that trick since they had done it themselves?).

I guess, like everything else.. it was the Force!

I'd imagine that Luke managed to feel his way to Bespin because of feeling Han's screams and all when he's tortured through the Force. "They didn't even ask me any questions...."

That is the official explanation as told in the DVD commentary and it makes sense. He senses their suffering and is able to go for it. But as for Dagobah? He justs senses Yoda's huge force aura?

Maybe the "shroud of the Dark Side" keeps the Jedi in check in AOTC and makes it harder for them to find things. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Zatoichi]

If you really want to get into it, consider R2 and 3PO landing on Tatooine where they did, getting picked up by Jawas and getting sold to Uncle Owen

Anyways, I like Obi-wan's explanation

Luke: You mean it controls your actions?
Ben: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.

Also, does Yoda contradict himself between the OT and PT with this?

ESB Yoda: Can't remember lines + not at home, the bit about the Force showing you whatever it feels like

Either AOTC or ROTS Yoda: The shroud of the darkside has fallen. Impossible to see the future is.

Without the actual lines, I don't know where I'm going with this.

[barend]

ben probably told luke the co-ordinates, but it wasn't shown.
like when girls say 'call me' to guys in clubs in movies and walk away without giving their number...

(but i actually hate that)

bespin? i got nothing.

maybe he just tried following the scorce of the distress of his friends, or maybe he did a google search on his on-board computer for 'city in the clouds' which turned up:
Did you mean: cloud city which upon clicking took him to http//:gww.bespin.gov.cs/lando/carbonite_frozen_meals.html

This post has been edited by barend: 08 December 2005 - 07:42 PM

[SithAvenger]

I don't know why, but we sound like prequel lovers giving explanations to PT plotholes.

Well, I guess it was probably.... the Force or something.

Anyways, ESB is still a great movie.

[barend]

obiwan says there's no such thing as luck... (at least in his experience) but that's probably because he never navigated through the SW galaxy...

although he didn't land too far from the droid factory. And he found an uncharted planet...

in fact... what the hell is he talking about?

[Despondent]

He's talking about the OT, and it's a misnomer. the line was actually: "there's no such thing as 'Suck'".