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Which episode... is now the worst of them all?

#1 User is offline   azerty Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 02:55 PM

Which Star wars movie is the absolute worst? Well, it is a tough choice, I know. Requires a bit of thought, really. How could anything be worse than Attack of the Clones? A good point. However, as absolutely shitty as Attack of the Clones undoubtedly was, Revenge of the Sith takes the medal as the absolute worst movie of the lot.

But it has cool effects, you say. Darth Vader, Chewbacca, Luke and Leia are born, they get taken to Alderaan and Tatooine, Paplpatine becomes the Emperor, its all here, its all connecting, the other movies didn't connect, I want connection, this movie connects...

Yeah, whatever...

The movie is called Star Wars, and yet they feel the need to insult us with the first word in the scroll up "War!" as if we didn't know that's what the story is about. It's called Star WARS, dumbshits. Chef's done this aspect to death, of course - but what about the scroll up of the next episode? I'm talking about the scroll up of A New Hope, which will inform us that "It is a period of civil war". Well that's obviously gonna have to be changed now, cause now that's just stupid. "War!" and "It is a period of civil war." Didn't really think that one through, didja George? Note to McCallum: Add exclamation point to original scroll up. No, better add two, just to be safe.

This brings up the point of scroll ups in general. The original scroll up had a point; to fill us in on a bit of necessary background. Civil War... rebels... Evil Galactic Empire... plans for the ultimate weapon... a princess in trouble... OK, we've got a few facts, let her rip!

But all the scroll ups in all the rest of the movies are a pointless waste of time. Once the decision was made (with the release of Empire Strikes Back) that the films would become "episodic", instead of stand alone stories, then the previous movies themselves should be all the background the viewer requires to understand the current episode.

Yet if Star Wars was meant to become a soap opera, why did the producers decide to leave out huge chunks of the story? What the hell kind of a soap opera skips huge chunks out? For example, what is the situation when Star Wars ended? Death Star destroyed, but Vader spinning off in space, even now calling up Imperial reinforcements on the sub-etha radio. Only a few rebel fighters left, and Solo maybe going to slip out the back door; we gotta get off this planet before the Imperial fleet kicks the doors down!

Yeah, well we skipped all that and now they are safely on Hoth... And the gap between Empire and Jedi is even more amateurish.

So scroll ups - they are only included because the original had one. And the fact that Lucas is completely lazy storyteller. And in this installment, he is the laziest he has been yet.

"The republic is crumbling" - yeah, we knew that from the last movie, (last 2 movies, actually). In fact I remember Lucas ramming that fact down our throats for 4 solid hours. "There are heroes on both sides" - yet "evil is everywhere", (both sides too, I'm sure, except for the heroes of course). What a waste of a paragraph.

"In a stunning move" (which we have missed, naturally), the fiendish (not a hero on the other side then) General Grievous has kidnapped chancellor Palpatine, (who is really Lord Sidious), (or don't we know that yet, I can't be bothered to remember) leader of the galactic senate. And isn't Dooku really Darth Tyrannus?

You know, I am already getting bored, and I haven't even had time to crack open a beer yet. At least in Attack of the Clones I wasn't bored until somebody blurted out "Annie, my you've grown." (Or whatever the first line was.)

Already we have been introduced to the Senate, Count Dooku, General Grievous, a droid army, a separatist army... should I be taking notes, sir? Will we be tested on this?

And so after wading through all that bullshit, we finally get to the point. Two jedi's are going to rescue Palpatine. Now this is the height of lameness. If the kidnapping was significant, then why not include it in the film? If not, then why mention it at all? What the fuck, I can't even decide if I am bored, or irritated, and the movie hasn't even really started yet. Perhaps I should hurl my beer at the screen? That's a special effect that might get a reaction.

On to the actual movie. We look down on a lonely (and fake looking) spaceship, with no other ships in sight, anywhere. But then we peer over the edge of the ship 5 seconds later and the sky is full of big ships, little ships, burning ships, and ack ack. Where the fuck did all that come from! But at least it's a space battle, let's seen what happens.

Well first of all, Artoo lets loose with the same lame ass beeps that he always uses. Can't they think of any new beeps for him, he's been saying the same crap for 28 years! This must be to help us connect with the original movies. That's what the fans want - connection! I recognize that beep! It's the one Artoo uses when he's about to attack a Death Star. Then some wanker says "Set S foils in attack position." That must be to help us connect with the original movies too. Anyway, you are already in a space battle, you dumbasses, why aren't your S-foils already in attack position?

Less than a minute later Annikin says "Here's where the fun begins..." That must be to help us connect with the original movies too. Will Obi Wan next say "How long before you can make the jump to light speed", or not? That's his standard response to that particular line, I believe. Why aren't Obi Wan and Annikin wearing space helmets? What the fuck is Obi Wan doing flying anyway? And is that the same tired old scream that the Stormtrooper who fell down the Death Star shaft used? Just asking...

But hang on! I think we're missing something here! Something very, very important. Yes, I know what it is! When is somebody going to get a bad feeling about this? That's what I really need to hear to help me connect! I'm waiting... I'm still waiting... Oh thank you Obi Wan. Oh yes! I'm so relieved, now. Relieved except for the constant wondering of what other lame ass rip off lines the characters are going to spout next.

You know, Ewan is doing a shit job this time around playing Obi Wan. The script is trying too hard to make him say the kind of things that the scriptwriters think Alec Guinness might have said 28 years ago. And they are thinking wrongly, because Alec Guinness was pretty much a badass, not this kind of a pompous tosser. I mean, old Alec killed a couple of dudes in a bar, saved Solo and Luke's asses on the Falcon, and got the boys off the Death Star, and then quietly and smilingly let himself be cut down in a sabre duel so that the others could escape. Did he ever say "Oh dear", or any of the rest of the lame comments that he is punctuating this film with?

The battle dialog is the weakest we have heard in any Star Wars film yet. A bunch of fighters are coming straight at the heroes - "Let them pass between us!" says Obi wan. No shit, what else are you going to do, fly right into them you dumbass? "Bad idea!" Says Annikin, trying to sound cool. Of course, if he were a real playa, he would say "My Bad" in these situations. What will "move to the right" accomplish? Stay as still as possible, you tosser, while somebody is grazing your head with laser beams.

Oh, I'm nitpicking again. OK let's get down to basics:

The special effects suck. Sure, there are lots of ships, but they all move incorrectly. They look flat and pasted onto a fake background. And they need to get their physics right. For example, the fighters landing on Palpatine's ship. A ship going that fast on a polished floor won't come to a stop in 80 meters, like it does, no way...

The villains suck. It took exactly 5 seconds for me to decide Grievous wasn't remotely threatening. A crippled hunchback with pneumonia. He has a stupid voice and he is a chicken shit too. Plus he walks like a fairy, and fairies ain't scary. The other villain, Dooku, well he sucks too. But that doesn't matter cause he'll be dead in a minute. And Palpatine? He has the subtlety of a child molester who says "Hey little girl, I have a candy bar in my pocket. Why don't you reach in and get it".

The action sucks. Falling down an elevator shaft, then hooking wire cables around a beam and swinging through a convenient door is ridiculous. And it's not that I lack incredulity, because I believed it when Matt Damon fell 3 stories down the stairwell while clutching a corpse, shot a couple of guys on the way down and used the corpse as a cushion when he hit bottom. But when Grievous gets sucked out the window (OK, cool enough) he stops in mid flight in order to fire a cable the purpose of which is to stop him in mid flight. What the fuck? And it might be easier to believe this trick would work if he didn't have lungs, and require oxygen to survive. Is there oxygen in space? Note to McCallum: Call NASA and check on that.

More lame ass action - how could a cool battle on Planet Wookie end up being such a huge yawner? Or a better question is this: How can people who thought the battle in the last movie was lame think this one is terrific, because to me they both seem boringly similar.

And the light sabre antics with grievous and his 4 arms? The result was inevitable and the process monotonous.

Now Natalie Portman is undoubtedly hot, so why does she look like some splotchy old slapper in all her scenes?

By my watch, from minute 28 to minute 48 nothing happens at all. Not a goddam thing, and 20 minutes is a hell of a long time. Padme brushes her hair. Annikin has a dream. Yoda burbles psychobabble to Annikin about his dream. Palpatine wants Annikin on the council. Yoda decides to visit the wookies. We also get to see what kind of tedious entertainment people watch in a galaxy far, far away - floating globules of pus with accompanying walrus gargling. It almost makes this film we are watching now seem entertaining by comparison.

Watching Obi Wan ride around on that lizard was about as fun as watching somebody else play a poorly conceived video game.

And the final light sabre battle that occupied minute 107 to minute 121? Well, even Darth Maul's fight was more interesting, and one tenth as tedious, if only because it was one tenth as long.

So did I like any part of it? Well, as a matter of fact, when that little kid Jedi shows up and kills some troopers, I thought possibly a new and interesting character might have shown up. Lucas must have disagreed, because he was dead 10 seconds later.

And talking about characters, am I the only one confused by the credits? Instead of crediting "Ugly man in bar", etc, like a normal film would, the credits list 49 individual names, 30 of which have never even been mentioned once in the entire film. Though I do see that Boba Fett has reformed himself and should henceforth be known as "Captain Colton". But as for the dude on Samuel Jackson's right in that battle with Palpatine, was that Sio Bibble or Puja Naberrie. And does anybody care?

But the thing that really kills me is the people who hate Episodes One and Two somehow love this one! What the fuck is difference between them? The New York Times guy thinks it's better than the original! Lucas invents the wheel in 1977, and today he covers the spokes with chromium paint, and people say "Well, the wheel wasn't much of an invention, but now that the spokes are shiny like that - Woweee!!!

So which is the worst?
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#2 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 03:21 PM

You basically hit it right on the head. Ep II followed by Ep III are the two worst.
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#3 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 03:54 PM

For me, its a tie between II and III on technical grounds. You made a number of excellent points, but this is my summary of how things go down:

II is bad and warrents the "worst" distinction for establishing nothing new or noteworthy to the story. We are taken to the planet where the droids are made and nothing is revealed. Dooku gives a speech to Obi Wan about how the Jedi strayed and his dissatisfaction with them and then again he really doesn't because no vaild points are presented during the speech. If the guy who taught my Master (Qui Gon) is going to start laying it on the line, I'm sure as heck gonna try to ask questions and listen really close because in the hope that I escape, I have a big piece of the puzzle not known before, after all, Obi wan was sent there to get the facts, and the he didn't.


And if I come across a clone army I may be thrilled that they saved the day by pulling our asses out of the fire for one battle, but I'm gonna ask a hell of a lot of questions as to who it really was who put in the bill of purchase for them, why the planet was covered up/removed from the archive database, and who's really behind things. I'm not going to just say "oh well" and surround every Jedi with several hundred of them. If you exercise caution in not pciking up gun that's on the sidewalk and eat it, I think you'd exercise some with entities who are trained for the sole purpose of fighting and in many cases, killing.


III is the worst of all in that all the expectations and promises of what we were shown before as the set up fell flat. The final duel was hokey, the reasons for Anakin becoming Vader really thin, and again, no part of the story advanced. Anakin can't live without Padme because he says so and nothing more. Forget the memory wipe 3PO gets, the one Anakin/Vader gets in not turning on Palpatine when he says Anakin/Vader is the reason Padme died and that Palpatine knows no way of bringing her back or the fact Padme TOLD him she was pregnant are major facts that we're just supposed to overlook. All throughout the PT I had the feeling "well the next scene will be one that's good and will explain everything" but it didn't for three movies.

For some off reason,, the FOX network is airing ATOC here in the USA on Thanksgiving Night. Take me back to the days of my childhood when King Kong or Mighty Joe Young were shown. Sure, the SFX sucked when compared to the more state of the art films then showing in theatres, but at least they had a compeling story.
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Posted 24 November 2005 - 04:01 PM

It's tough but it's close between I and II for me. III was terribly disappointing to me but AT LEAST things happened! I and II did nearly nothing to advance the plot. And Anakin was introduced in a terrifically inexpert way (as a 10 year old). Episode I hurt more but Episode II was much more boring.
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#5 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 09:20 PM

TPM or RotJ get my vote.
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Posted 24 November 2005 - 09:27 PM

I go through spurts. If i read nitpicks like this, i suddenly look back and hate all the star wars movies. but today while watching ESB i felt like they were all God's creation. I guess i either hate or love them all equally.
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#7 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 12:23 PM

You all made excellent points and I commend you on all of them. Personally, Episode III was utterly boring and I would never watch it more than twice... the first time 'stand alone' and the second with my movie marathon.

Even the special effects weren't really that compelling. Do you know why? Because I've been bombarded with them so much they no longer seem interesting. There's an old saying "Familiarity breeds contempt" and this saying has been proved correct once again by the overuse of CGI by all recent movies. I don't them at all be so cool but I would very much prefer an interesting story over them anytime.

Everything in Episode III went by at warp speed... one moment people are having a seemingly important discussion and it's all over in 5 seconds, and you still have no idea what the hell is going on. I'm not surprised that George Lucas gave such a weak story for Anakin's fall to the Dark Side and the entire failure of the Sith.

In my opinion, Anakin should have been begun his fall in the first movie, actually got to completing it in the second, and the whole third movie would revolve around his attempts to escape and ultimately failing, then he would spend the rest of the movie killing Jedi and going after Obi-Wan, after which they have their duel and he ends up in his suit as we know him in the OT.

This is just a rough sketch of it all, what do you folks think of it?
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Posted 25 November 2005 - 07:04 PM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 25 2005, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In my opinion, Anakin should have been begun his fall in the first movie, actually got to completing it in the second, and the whole third movie would revolve around his attempts to escape and ultimately failing, then he would spend the rest of the movie killing Jedi and going after Obi-Wan, after which they have their duel and he ends up in his suit as we know him in the OT.

This is just a rough sketch of it all, what do you folks think of it?


This is how Episode III should have been: http://www.milkandco...m/article/1354/

With a great imagination and a few lego bricks, this fan created probably the best idea of what a prequel film could be.

Every time I see that film it makes me marvel at what could have been. sad.gif
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#9 User is offline   Gerhard Icon

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE (azerty @ Nov 24 2005, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But the thing that really kills me is the people who hate Episodes One and Two somehow love this one! What the fuck is difference between them?


I don't understand this as well, I think than in many cases people are cheating on themselves, they really try to like the movie because it's the last one, or they are just kids who want to see light-sabers battles and CGI action that there is in every summer blockbuster every year now.

For me clearly the worst is ROTS, because it's insulting, mainly for two things: Anakin's Turn to the dark side is too rushed and pathetic. Padme dying of depression, again pathetic, held as a strong character in the previous movies, has twins to look after, still believes "there is good" in Anakin, but refuses to live, what an absolute non-sense, contradictory really. There are more reasons for disliking ROTS, but this are the main reasons.

The best for me, of the PT, is TPM, even with Jar Jar and the midicloreans trash, had the most interesting character in the whole PT (for me), Darth Maul, he had the mystery and villain charisma Vader and Bobba Fett had in the OT which was destroyed with the PT. I hope Lucas does not remember to do an Episode 0, with the origin of Darth Maul, can you imagine a red baby with horns? sick.gif
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#10 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 05:05 AM

Darth Maul didn't look like that naturally, he has tatoos all over his body and head, this is why he looks that way.

Which brings me to this point... why is he so radically different from the Sith, anyway? With that apperance and all.
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#11 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 05:48 AM

I'd say the worst is (still) the Phantom Menace. Sure, the worst parts of AOTC are pretty bad, so it's your choice which you hate more... bad pickup lines or Jar Jar stepping in crap and inhaling camel farts.

Yes, when TPM first came out many held out hope that "well, it will all make sense in context with everything else" and there was a certain naivete that there was a lot more room for them to fill in the gaps with the other two movies. So much for that!

Except for some nice saber fighting (still I think some of the best in the series) and a pod race that was well done (if not a bit long and with that embarrassing announcer) TPM is the most consistently boring, and ultimately pointless, now that we've seen how ROTS had to rush to tie up the loose ends and throw in all the development of the relationships that were going to make the massive climax and payoff happen. I agree with people who have said that TPM probably could have been left out and the Prequel Trilogy should have split up the "clone wars" into two whole movies (and I don't mean using the cartoon as a template! that's pure video game fodder).

As to the Prequel Trilogy... it is what it is. And try as we might, there's still a bit of disconnect between the two trilogies, I don't care what Lucas "always intended." It doesn't work as "one film," sorry...

All the Special Editions and EU novels aren't going to change that... they just tend to make it worse.

If I have to pick a "least" movie, Episode I is it. Even the DVD looks like crap compared to the others (in terms of visual quality, though it excels in terms of extras!). Now don't get me wrong, Episode IV is also slow and full of exposition, but it's crafted in such a way as to not be so bland, plus it was the starting point so we could give it the benefit of the doubt. TPM's job was to setup what we already knew, which would have been fine, except for where the rest of the trilogy went, showing that it was mostly filler. In terms of action and quality of effects the prequels get better and better, leaving TPM again at the bottom. The dated look of the effects in ANH are made up for it with the likable characters, good storytelling, and sense of adventure and discovery.

Edit: I wasn't one of those folks who hated Episodes I & II but loved III. I thought I wasn't that great (as before). A deeply flawed movie with a few redeeming parts. AOTC I liked, despite some bad spots. ROTS too had some flaws, it wasn't a "perfect" film to my mind by any means. What I liked about it was the action. It had a lot of cool fight scenes. I thought the effects looked superb. It had a lot of fantasy violence in it, which is what I enjoy in these films. It tried (even if it didn't always succeed) to give the backstory and setup for the original trilogy (which is usually the point of making a prequel in the first place). Compared to the other two prequels, I think ROTS did what it set out to do a lot better. It is even such that it could almost stand on its own as a prequel to the classic trilogy. Almost. (definately a slight to Portman and Lee fans!)

As for explaining the critical response? I don't know. It could be people wanting to get in on the excitement of the "last star wars movie ever" and wanting to convince themselves that it was worthwhile. Remember Episode I made a TON of money (though it definately suffered from its own hype machine going way out of control). The media loved every second they could ride on the coattails of all the prequels obviously, but I was a bit surprised by how much they liked the third one. Go figure.

If Episode III's worst sin was failing to live up to expectations, then Episode I's was being boring and silly. I can live with plot holes and chipmunk droid voices over Jar Jar...

This post has been edited by KurganX: 27 November 2005 - 05:59 AM

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#12 User is offline   Gerhard Icon

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 07:29 AM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 27 2005, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Darth Maul didn't look like that naturally, he has tatoos all over his body and head, this is why he looks that way.


What about the horns? Natural or not?
he's he considered human? I admit i'm too lazy to check his data on the Star Wars databank

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 27 2005, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which brings me to this point... why is he so radically different from the Sith, anyway? With that apperance and all.


I don't know, we only met 4 sith's anyway (Vader, Maul, Sidius and Doku)
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#13 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 09:01 AM

Possibly the tatoos signify a lower rank in Sithness?
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#14 User is offline   Smashman Icon

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 01:49 PM

The. Entire. PT.

It's just that no heart and soul went into making any of them, unlike the OT.
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