[Revan-47]

Is Yoda thinking of his own failure when he tells Luke "there is no try"? When he levitates the X-wing for Luke, is he proving to himself that he still has some power left?


[/quote]I always thought he was talking about his own failure when he tells luke "do not underestimate the powers of the emporer."

[barend]

Just thought of something else.

"Only a sith deals in absolutes!"

"Do or Do not, there is no try"

It appears that Yoda was evidently also a Sith in disguise. Fuck George, could you have at least watched your films before you vomited up your new scripts.

nice

[Jejef Thgaron]

Does anyone know the meaning of absolute? Yoda didn't tell Luke that he necessarily had to lift the X-Wing. Besides, Yoda did it for him. That's not an absolute, it's a choice. Either Luke does it or he doesn't do it.

Obi-Wan tells Anakin, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". If you aren't with me, then you are against me. Sounds like something Saddam Hussein would say to his citizens in his glory days. This is an absolute because Anakin is proclaiming Obi-Wan as his new enemy. Anakin thinks that his way is the only way. Would it have been better for GL to give Anakin a cheesy cliche line, like, "It's my way or the highway, Obi-Wan"? Anakin is showing signs of overconfidence because he has a huge ego brought on by his new found powers. When dictators assume absolute power, it means they have taken complete control. Anakin is taking complete control over this situation and he is trying to dictate to Obi-Wan that he has no choice. It's either join me or die. I don't know anyone who would chose death on purpose and Obi-Wan comes back with a simple, "I will fight you if I have to".

Geez, doesn't anyone watch these movies before they pick them apart. Let's be logical and try to figure out why these types of things are in the movies before we sling uneducated insults at these films.

[Sailor Abbey]

Geez, doesn't anyone watch these movies before they pick them apart. Let's be logical and try to figure out why these types of things are in the movies before we sling uneducated insults at these films.

Yeah Theres not a whole lot to figure out here. And I have yet to hear an insult that hath been slung at the PT that wasnt both logical and educated.

This post has been edited by Sailor Abbey: 01 March 2006 - 07:40 PM

[Jejef Thgaron]

Yeah Theres not a whole lot to figure out here. And I have yet to hear an insult that hath been slung at the PT that wasnt both logical and educated.

So it is logical and educated to assume the definition of a word that has been a staple of the English language for decades to mean anything else than it's one and only meaning?

absolute adj. complete; the president assumed absolute power = became a dictator.

Courtesy of Webster's English Dictionary

This Webster guy must be a fraud. He says there's only one meaning for the word absolute. That can't be right. There has to be another meaning for absolute. Let's make up a separate meaning for the word absolute... how about this:

absolute adj. bullshit; some people are full of absolute = uneducated.

Or how about this:

absolute adj. non-existent; the consistency of the films is absolute = became illogical.

There. That should solve our problems. We'll just make up the definitions of other words as we go along. That's completely logical and educated. Screw learning! We'll just learn the essentials and to hell with everything else! Being educated and logical is for the birds.

This is only an example of why these insults make no logical sense to me. This is the kind of post that makes me glad to have a formal education. I'm no professor, nor do I claim to be, but I can't sit here and watch people bash these films for entirely pointless and irrational reasons. Allow me to clarify: ABSOLUTELY pointless and irrational reasons. (Absolute, meaning: complete; Ly, being the suffix) If you can't hear the illogical and uneducated insults, then maybe it is time to invest in a louder monitor. Yes, that was sarcasm. I think I laid it on pretty thick.

[Sailor Abbey]

What are you talking about. Absolute has one definition as you said. So Obi-wan and all the rest are big fat fucking hypocrites AND George Lucas is an idiot for making them that way. Where’s the problem here? It looks pretty straight forward. If I say, my dog Fido is black, it doesn’t mean he’s white. And if he is white, it means I’m a liar. Unless I’m in a GL movie, in which case I’m just another victim on GLs payroll.

Just because you love the movies doesn’t mean I’m a moron for thinking they suck. Quality is in the eye of the ticket holder, and I burned my ticket stubs in an arcane ritual I later scribed with my own blood.

Also, work on your sarcasm. My cat coughs up better stuff than that.

This post has been edited by Sailor Abbey: 02 March 2006 - 06:44 PM

[Jejef Thgaron]

What are you talking about. Absolute has one definition as you said. So Obi-wan and all the rest are big fat fucking hypocrites AND George Lucas is an idiot for making them that way. Where’s the problem here? It looks pretty straight forward. If I say, my dog Fido is black, it doesn’t mean he’s white. And if he is white, it means I’m a liar. Unless I’m in a GL movie, in which case I’m just another victim on GLs payroll.

Just because you love the movies doesn’t mean I’m a moron for thinking they suck. Quality is in the eye of the ticket holder, and I burned my ticket stubs in an arcane ritual I later scribed with my own blood.

Also, work on your sarcasm. My cat coughs up better stuff than that.

I never said you were a moron. Ever. I just wish whoever started this thread would have noticed the difference between absolute and choice.

If you say your dog Fido is black, that is not an absolute... even if Fido is black. It simply means you are stating a fact. Unless Fido is white. Then you are a liar. That has nothing to do with absolutes. It is either true or false.

If I tell you I'm going to kill you unless your dog is black, that is an absolute. You have no choice in the matter. If your dog's white, I will kill you. If you paint your dog black, it doesn't make a bit of difference because your dog is still white under the layer of paint. Pretend for a moment that your dog is white. That's taboo in my eyes and I will make good with my absolution. You have no say because I am in control. Pretend for a moment that you are Obi-Wan and your white dog is the Jedi religion. You are my mortal enemy because your dog is white. You can't change the fact that your dog is white, just like Obi-Wan can't change his beliefs. Therefore, Obi-Wan is given an ultimatum. Since he won't back out of his beliefs, he is Anakin's sworn enemy and a traitor.

Obi-Wan said, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". That is not an absolute in and of itself. It is a fact. Obi is only stating a fact. It means he is telling Anakin, "I won't side with a dictator". Anakin is the dictator in question.

When Yoda was training Luke, he was not giving him an absolute. He gave him a choice. Do or do not. Luke could have pulled the X-Wing out... but he opted not to. There is no try means if you can't do it, don't try. He is frustrated because he has to take years of Jedi training and cram them into a timeline of approximately a few weeks. He thinks Luke should be able to do it, but Luke chickens out. If Yoda was giving Luke an absolute, then why would Yoda lift the X-Wing out of the swamp for him?

I am only giving you what I perceive to be a logical reason for these lines. You asked what the problem was, and it seemed like you didn't even read my last two posts on this thread. I can tell if you have read them thoroughly or not. Please don't take this as if I am calling anyone a moron. I'm simply stating fact in that absolute means complete. I did use the words illogical and uneducated. These words do not mean moron. I chose my words carefully in an attempt to be unoffensive.

"I can only show you the door, you must walk through it." Morpheus - The Matrix

[Sailor Abbey]

I never said you were a moron. Ever. I just wish whoever started this thread would have noticed the difference between absolute and choice.

I know. I was just using myself as an example.

If you say your dog Fido is black, that is not an absolute... even if Fido is black. It simply means you are stating a fact. Unless Fido is white. Then you are a liar. That has nothing to do with absolutes. It is either true or false.

What?

If I tell you I'm going to kill you unless your dog is black, that is an absolute. You have no choice in the matter. If your dog's white, I will kill you. If you paint your dog black, it doesn't make a bit of difference because your dog is still white under the layer of paint. Pretend for a moment that your dog is white. That's taboo in my eyes and I will make good with my absolution. You have no say because I am in control. Pretend for a moment that you are Obi-Wan and your white dog is the Jedi religion. You are my mortal enemy because your dog is white. You can't change the fact that your dog is white, just like Obi-Wan can't change his beliefs. Therefore, Obi-Wan is given an ultimatum. Since he won't back out of his beliefs, he is Anakin's sworn enemy and a traitor.

*shakes head*

Look, you're making this way more difficult than it is.

Obi-Wan said, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". That is not an absolute in and of itself. It is a fact.

No its not a fact, its an observation. “There is no emotion, there is peace” is an absolute. Therefore, Obi-wan is a hypocrite.

He is frustrated because he has to take years of Jedi training and cram them into a timeline of approximately a few weeks.

He's frustrated because he doesnt understand why the hell Obi wan, who lived 10 miles from Luke for the past 20 years, never thought to bring him to Degoba before then. He's also still trying to figure out how the hell he has been contributing to the war effort by sitting on his ass doing nothing on the swamp planet.

Here's the bottom line:

The phrase "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is an absolute according to the definition you previously provided. I say again, Obi wan is a big fat fucking hypocrite.

[barend]

here's an absolute...

"Either you're with me or you're against me!"

is in fact.... An ULTIMATUM!!!!!

starting a sentance with "ONLY" is an 'absolute' dealt!!!

This post has been edited by barend: 02 March 2006 - 08:03 PM

[barend]

...to save time, i'd like to state than any argument against that IS stupid.

[Sailor Abbey]

...to save time, i'd like to state than any argument against that IS stupid.

… also an absolute.

Wow, you're good at this.

[barend]

well i drink alot of vodka

[Zatoichi]

My dictionary - Merriam - Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 11th edtion

absolute - there are ten different definitions, several of which have an a, b, or c part to them.
Therefore, my dictionary kicks your dictionary's ass*.






*because yours only had one
No, I'm not going to type them all out.

This post has been edited by Zatoichi: 02 March 2006 - 08:36 PM

[barend]

i was posting a 5 point definition but it required to many '[]'

and i just coun't be bothered.... i know i'm right, and i don't to have to burn a kilojoule more than i need to to proove it.

[Jejef Thgaron]

i was posting a 5 point definition but it required to many '[]'

and i just coun't be bothered.... i know i'm right, and i don't to have to burn a kilojoule more than i need to to proove it.

Yeah, you're right. The word ONLY clears it all up for us. There is no difference between black or white, up or down, back and forth, Jedi and Sith. They're all the same. You people are soooo uber-intelligent you don't even have to back up your debate with any kind of logical proof. I'm such a weak-minded individual... how did I ever think speaking in absolutes meant something entirely different than what it really did mean?!?! What an imbecile I am! I regret my dictionary must be absolutely wrong because it only has one definition as opposed to someone else's dictionary which contains many more definitions of the same word. I knew I should have opted to buy the Webster's Barend's Official Star Wars Debate Dictionary, but I just couldn't buy a dictionary with definitions written in crayon. I don't seem to have any idea why my statements could be logical correct. After all, I am a total moron that doesn't know what I'm talking about.

Here's an absolute: I either bow down before Barend, or I should kill myself for not being as intellectual as Barend is.

Here's a reply (not an absolute): Only a uber-intellectual person deals in absolutes.

My point: I may not be the smartest person around, but I know the difference between shit and shinola. I'm not going to kill myself because someone thinks they know more than me. I'm also not going to bow down before Barend. Therefore, the absolute posted above is an absolute. My reply is only a response to a tyrannical dictate in which I am making a summarization of why the absolute was muttered in the first place. I am not speaking in absolutes. I am referring to the fact that I will not do what Barend wants me to do and bow down before him. I am telling Barend that he is assuming absolute control and I won't stand for it. I'm not cancelling his absolute out with another absolute. I'm basically saying to Barend that I realize he is trying to use his authority against me, and I am in no mood to let him have absolute control over my actions.

How many times do I have to explain why your arguement over absolutes is stale? Apparently, as many times as it takes before someone actually realizes the rationality of this entire scene. I gave proof to back up why I believe I'm absolutely correct. I still see no proof of why I'm incorrect because nobody wants to burn a kilojoule more to try to prove their point. The only thing I can gather is that people are too lazy to defend their point. I'll wait for the evidence that proves me wrong, but until then, absolute means complete. It doesn't matter how many definitions the dictionary has for the same word because that's just it... it's the same word. Most people responding to my posts on this subject still don't understand one aspect of the film's scene or another and they are not proving anything. Nobody has enough proof to back up why they think they are correct. As I said, I'll be waiting for proof... but not just someone saying, "I'm right and I don't have to argue the point", but someone with the willingness to burn a few kilojoules to prove it.