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Additional reasons to hate Episode III And my conlusion of being a Star Wars fan.

#1 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 12:57 PM

Hi everyone.

I had my partial movie marathon yesterday and I finished off this morning. It was pretty damn tough watching 6 movies at a time and all the junk food I ate had a lot to do with my stopping half-way across the third movie. I will never eat potato chips as long as live beyond this point, I was never a fan of that stuff, but after this experience I learned that eating it in any quantity is bad. Regardless of this, let's go on to the point.

I've completed what I said I would years ago, and I will never watch another Star Wars movie as long as I live, and any Star Wars game that I have now will be treated as simple 'space' games and nothing else. I will not buy another Star Wars game, nor will I waste my money on anything else that the franchise would have. I will remember what I was before and what Star Wars meant to me, but that's the end of it. On to my review.

In seeing the original movies as I completed the prequels, I started to see Star Wars in a different light, the many inconsistencies definitely bogged down my ability to think of the movies good and the character to suffer the most is Darth Vader. After seeing what an utter fool he was in the prequels, I couldn't bear to see a scene with him for too long. The fact that this great and 'evil' Dark Lord is someone who used to be an empty brained dunce and a constantly complaining individual who couldn't even speak in a voice that wasn't either stale as rotten cheese or inconceivably petulant (If that's the right word to describe it, that is) is something unbearably irritating. Further more, the whole idea of the Empire suddenly crumbling apart in Episode VI after the death of Palpatine is ludicrous, especially after the immense support he got from the senate and governors (wouldn't they perhaps call for a successor or start a massive civil war of succession? This issue is more complicated than you think). Star Wars is one big jumbled mess and I really can't describe it in one simple post, not right now anyway, and I don't think I ever will muster up the interest in writing a whole essay about this for many obvious reasons.

So now that I've given a short ending speech as to what I think of Star Wars as a whole (I know it was too short for justice), I will get on with my review of Episode III and my additional reasons to hate it.

Generally speaking, the overall tone of Episode III was an extremely rushed movie, and I predicted this the moment I finished watching Episode II so I'm not surprised. Not only was it rushed, it was also extremely childish and runs in the vein of cartoon's I remember watching in the 1980's and early-to-mid 90's. General Grevious's voice was so poorly done that even I could have similarly imitated it given the right conditions and with minimal aid. The battles found between characters like Mace Windu, Palpatine and Yoda were not those I'd expect of a battle aimed at entertaining thinking adults, but rather that for teens, children, and adults who just don't care for anything other than quick action. The dialogue was similarly bland, but there are other problems that I will discuss later.

Many people liked the lightsabre battles in this movie, and I actually found a few bits here and there that I did like myself. I would advise less observant people to realize that I liked certain bits of them, not the whole thing. For example, the battle between Obi-wan, Anakin and Count Dooku (still a ridicules name) was uninteresting for the most part until the end, when Anakin and Count Dooku fight alone and actually make moves I'd expect from a real swordfight, such as trapping arms and grappling, which were both done. This also applies to parts of the duel between Anakin and Obi-wan at the end, but other than these short bits, I found them to be too generic for my tastes.

So going on to the actual acting. Anakin is better than he was in AOTC and his bouts of complaining are far less irritating and more mature (except the one he does it in the counsel room, which I personal found to be beyond redeemable or acceptable), but one thing about Anakin that isn't good has nothing to do with being a 'whiny bitch' but it has everything to do with him being a complete moron. His methods of dealing with Palpatine and the Jedi are preposterous and his motivations are so jumbled that I seriously doubt even HE knew what he was doing. It makes you wonder whether George Lucas was drunk, high, or perhaps suffering from massive head injury when he wrote this. Perhaps it was all three in a way, but I doubt it.

Other than being rushed, the overall story reeks of amateur Fan fiction I used to write and read as a young teenager. Boy where those the days, the days I used to write something so incoherent and silly and sometimes make things that I'd plan to explain later on and totally forget to do it and, after all is done, I'd think I have a good story worth publishing or turning into a movie! Thankfully, those days are long gone, but despite this, George Lucas, a man in his late 50's, doesn't seem to have moved beyond this stage at all. Chefelf criticized him on this basis as well, as he stated that the Star Wars prequels reminded him of the stories he wrote as a 12 year older, and now I fully understand what he's talking about.

I think I've spoken enough about the overall movie for now; I'll be getting on to the additional reasons to hate it.

1: Watch out for Flak and Fighters!

The fact that there's flak in this movie is no surprise. I've heard about it on the official Star Wars forums about a year back or so. So what's stupid with this? It all makes you wonder just what was George Lucas thinking when he put flak into this movie. Flak was used from World War 1 to the Korean War (and is probably in small use today) as a very inaccurate method of taking airplanes from the sky. While it was effective, it required very large batteries of guns with radar control. Also the amount of flak in the movie is too low and to be effective against bringing down anything.

But what am I talking about? The only reason why Flak is there is because it makes a nice special effect and nothing else! Facts and realism be damned, and damn the fact that flak is basically a shrapnel shell that explodes at a predetermined height and sends chunks of metal the size of your fist flying all over the place, which renders it too dangerous and too low to use in places such as the Wookie battle (in which quite a bit of friendlies would have been killed as well as the enemy). In the movie, Flak doesn't resemble anything it is in real life, but are basically balls of black smoke popping up here and there.

P.S. The title of my 'reason to hate' is taken from a frequent warning that bomber crews were told in World War 2, as they constantly had to watch out for flak and fighters.

2: wheeze, wheeze, cough cough!

The reason why General grievous has such a problem with his constant coughing and wheezing is because he received some damage from a character in the Clone Wars cartoon (I'm totally serious here) but you think that such an important individual would have this problem fixed, don't you? Of course he should! But being a kid's movie, there needs to be a reason for small children to laugh at him (as if his appearance and dialogue weren't enough!) so he has to cough around and move like an old man. I'm actually surprised he wasn't carrying a walking stick around with him!

3: Chew on this, ya scurvy scum!

Did anyone else notice that the fight between the two battleships in the beginning looked exactly like a fight between two 17th century ships? Forgive me if I may sound silly, but given the technology of the era, you'd think they'd have better ways to fight one another than simply to get closer and shoot at point blank range. I'd also think that this is possible to create something more exciting and better overall, but I guess that this is the level of George's creativity. What a sad scenario. sleep.gif

4: the battle droids.

Throughout the prequels, the battle droids have shown themselves too geared towards kids. The were colorful, goofy, humorous (in a silly way) and generally ridicules. In Episode III, however, they sink down a new depth. Everything they do is precisely what I would expect to find a sci-fi movie geared at 6-8 year olders (that demographic precisely), as are the 'buzzdroids'. Not only are their voices really silly, their behavior and actions (such as the ironically named 'super' battle droids who talk and behave like schoolyard bullies and street punks/thugs). Every one of them even acts like they're begging for mercy and warding off with their hands when Anakin and Obi-wan are attacking them are too kiddy and just plain embarrassing to watch. The Phantom Menace droids and AOTC are far more respectable by comparison.

5: Lack of a planetary defense system.

I know that the republic has a fleet of ships standing by to defend the place, but I'm surprised that the planet didn't have some kind of defense system like beams, missiles and other stuff that could have made any attack by those Separatists far too dangerous to carry out. I guess the fact that they were so stupid as to be unable to destroy GG's ship before he got Palpatine is proof that the fleet was some time off planet and had to be called... hmm....

6: Is he still on board or what?

Forgive me, but I have to bring up this issue. If Palpatine and the Jedi were still on board the ship, why the hell is everyone blasting at it with high explosives and blaster fire? Don't they realize that if they blow up the ship, they'll kill the man they're trying to rescue? I guess it's best to damage the ship to the point of destroying it and have the heroes make a dramatic escape (or landing in this case) than simply make a safe exit on a ship.

A safe exit on a ship? Nahh, that's far too boring. Let's cause the ship to be on the verge of blowing up after all the battle damage it too from trigger happy battleship crews who are far too eager to waste several tons of ammo into the behemoth!

7: Two Jedi will do just fine, thank you.

Whatever got into the minds of George went he thought about sending a mere pair of Jedi into the battleship to rescue Palpatine? Please forgive me for forgetting that this is just a childish fantasy, but any scenario of this sort would call for several hundred commandoes and probably even a compliment of regular troops and technicians as well. That's a huge ship we're talking about and it would probably be too dangerous to send them in... This brings me to my next point.


(continued)

8: Big ship, but empty.

OK, here's the wang. You got yourself a huge ship with hardly anyone on board and practically no security systems other than a pinch full of these force field things and less droids than cops in your average police station. Do I really need to go on further?

9: Hands up, Jedi!

OK, I'm just going to bring up these two points. First, when Anakin and Obi-Wan are attacked by destroyer droids and are forced into this room, they are suddenly faced with about a dozen droids who seemed to have popped up from nowhere and order them in the squeakiest voice imaginable to drop their weapons. Anakin and Obi-Wan quickly dispatch them after that. Here's the deal... taking into consideration how close they were and how dangerous the Jedi are to them, they could VERY easily have killed them both at that range, but for some reason they thought to capture them at the most inappropriate moment and with inappropriate methods.

If they were really intent on capturing them... why not set their weapons to stun? This was done in Star Wars and mentioned in ESB, but for some reason, blasters haven't been fitted with that or no one thought about having a non-lethal weapon yet... wacko.gif

The second instance, which I believe is even stupider, is when Anakin is dangling down the elevator shaft when these two droids come up and order him to put his hands up... oh for crying out loud! blushing.gif

10: Still using those?

Destroyer droids seem to be the perfect anti-Jedi weapon. Whenever they send them, Jedi always make a run for it. So you'd think with this that the Jedi would develop a tactic for dealing with them, but I guess they suffer from some defective intellectual trait that forbids them from developing new tactics to survive, which is why they were able to cope with thousands of years of technological advancements...

11: Why did he want them prisoner?

General Grievous wants the Jedi prisoner, and the purpose was never explained. I suppose that Palpatine wanted to do something, but I just can't... never mind. huh.gif

12: I wanted revenge… or did I?

Anakin does a good job of defeating Count Dooku and has him on knees. Palpatine then snickers and laughs and, with all the skill of a kumquat, he tells Anakin to kill him. Anakin naturally protests to this by saying it is ‘not the Jedi way’ to kill an unarmed prisoner and ‘he should stand trial’. Despite this, Palpatine nags him until he chops off Dooku’s head and gives the god-awful “I shouldn’t have done that” line that was already addressed by Chefelf. Anakin complains about this as he frees Palpatine but Palpatine just says that ‘it’s natural, he cut off your arm and you wanted revenge’. Now hold it right there for one moment, the only reason why Anakin killed Dooku is on Palpatine’s order and insistence, not for revenge. But for some reason this scene had to be rushed in order to make room for the squawking iguana chase thing with General Grievous and the video gameish battle between him and Obi-Wan. There was simply no time for unimportant things like showing Anakin attempting to unleash his anger and hatred, or having conflicting emotions or desires. More time should be allocated towards special effects and sounds and other things that really matter in Lucas’s mind.

13: The aftermath.

For some reason, no one looks into the facts that Count Dooku should have been caught alive and that Palpatine was so utterly evil and heartless that he ordered Anakin to kill him and even to leave Obi-Wan to die. Thankfully, Anakin is both considerate enough to help his master escape and stupid enough to lie to the authorities and his superiors about what happened on the ship which could have given the Jedi an early warning that perhaps he’s not entirely what he seems…

14: flaps? For what?

As Anakin takes control of the helm (how is it possible that only two people and a droid capable of taking complete control of a giant spaceship is beyond me), he orders all flaps and other stuff to be extended as he makes his approach on planet for an emergence landing. First of all, given the level of technology level of Star Wars, such stuff are totally unnecessary and I seriously doubt they’d ever have that much installed in the extraordinarily unlikely event of a horizontal landing as shown in the movie. But I guess that landing strips wouldn’t be needed either. I wish that George would cut on the special effects for a moment and have them abandon ship in a stolen shuttle, which would be infinitely more logical.

15: Trying to throw them off, is he?

General Grievous snickers and gloats as he says “Time to abandon ship.” When he launches every escape pod onboard, apparently to throw them off his trail, now I will discuss how this is stupid. Taking into consideration how many fighters and ships are around, why not simply destroy every single escape pod around. One of them will hold our robotic moron and he will be destroyed. Also, how is escaping in one of those things going to do any good? Surely he doesn’t have a hyperdrive onboard? Or maybe I should watch the movie again. :wacko

This is all for now. I’ve so many reasons in my head that I can’t think straight. I think it may take a while before I compose a complete list in addition to these… geeze, even Episode II didn’t bring up this much in my mind! O_O
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 03:21 PM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 13 2005, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
3: Chew on this, ya scurvy scum!

Did anyone else notice that the fight between the two battleships in the beginning looked exactly like a fight between two 17th century ships? Forgive me if I may sound silly, but given the technology of the era, you'd think they'd have better ways to fight one another than simply to get closer and shoot at point blank range. I'd also think that this is possible to create something more exciting and better overall, but I guess that this is the level of George's creativity. What a sad scenario. sleep.gif


I actually enjoyed this aspect (thought not the scene). Strategically it seems like it would have eventually come to this. The ships would try their best to eliminate each other from as far a distance as possible (missles, fighter compliments, etc.). Eventually the two ships would broadside each other until one wins! smile.gif

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 13 2005, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
6: Is he still on board or what?

Forgive me, but I have to bring up this issue. If Palpatine and the Jedi were still on board the ship, why the hell is everyone blasting at it with high explosives and blaster fire? Don't they realize that if they blow up the ship, they'll kill the man they're trying to rescue? I guess it's best to damage the ship to the point of destroying it and have the heroes make a dramatic escape (or landing in this case) than simply make a safe exit on a ship.


Yeah, there's really no explanation for this. It is stupid that the Republic high command would not have passed down these orders onto the starship commanders (who in the novelization we learn is none other than Captain Needa). It's inconceivable to think that ONLY the Jedi were told about the fact that Palpatine was aboard.

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 13 2005, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
7: Two Jedi will do just fine, thank you.

Whatever got into the minds of George went he thought about sending a mere pair of Jedi into the battleship to rescue Palpatine? Please forgive me for forgetting that this is just a childish fantasy, but any scenario of this sort would call for several hundred commandoes and probably even a compliment of regular troops and technicians as well. That's a huge ship we're talking about and it would probably be too dangerous to send them in... This brings me to my next point.
(continued)


The thing is, why send more than two Jedi when the Jedi are shown to be completely invincible in the prequels? This is a problem with the PT as a whole but this scene seems to follow that rule (as dumb as it is).

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 13 2005, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
8: Big ship, but empty.

OK, here's the wang. You got yourself a huge ship with hardly anyone on board and practically no security systems other than a pinch full of these force field things and less droids than cops in your average police station. Do I really need to go on further?


Here's the wang?? blink.gif

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 13 2005, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
9: Hands up, Jedi!

OK, I'm just going to bring up these two points. First, when Anakin and Obi-Wan are attacked by destroyer droids and are forced into this room, they are suddenly faced with about a dozen droids who seemed to have popped up from nowhere and order them in the squeakiest voice imaginable to drop their weapons. Anakin and Obi-Wan quickly dispatch them after that. Here's the deal... taking into consideration how close they were and how dangerous the Jedi are to them, they could VERY easily have killed them both at that range, but for some reason they thought to capture them at the most inappropriate moment and with inappropriate methods.

If they were really intent on capturing them... why not set their weapons to stun? This was done in Star Wars and mentioned in ESB, but for some reason, blasters haven't been fitted with that or no one thought about having a non-lethal weapon yet... wacko.gif

The second instance, which I believe is even stupider, is when Anakin is dangling down the elevator shaft when these two droids come up and order him to put his hands up... oh for crying out loud! blushing.gif


Very true. The problem, as I see it, is twofold:

1.) Telling a Jedi, who can control things with their mind, to put their hands up is stupid.

2.) The separatists have done a shitty job of adapting to the wartime tactics of the Jedi in the past 2-3 years. There are so many simple advances in weapon technology that could have been implemented to be more effective against the strengths of the Jedi. See my previous point about the Jedi being invincible.

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 13 2005, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
10: Still using those?

Destroyer droids seem to be the perfect anti-Jedi weapon. Whenever they send them, Jedi always make a run for it. So you'd think with this that the Jedi would develop a tactic for dealing with them, but I guess they suffer from some defective intellectual trait that forbids them from developing new tactics to survive, which is why they were able to cope with thousands of years of technological advancements...


It is stupid that the only thing that makes them work so well is their shielding. Like you said, why not just put all your resources into developing these droids. They may cost a lot more but wouldn't it be better to have 4 million destroyers rather than 16 million battle droids? Especially considering that a Jedi has never defeated a destroyer and they're destroyed about 15 million battle droids.
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 03:22 PM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Nov 13 2005, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2: wheeze, wheeze, cough cough!

The reason why General grievous has such a problem with his constant coughing and wheezing is because he received some damage from a character in the Clone Wars cartoon (I'm totally serious here) but you think that such an important individual would have this problem fixed, don't you? Of course he should! But being a kid's movie, there needs to be a reason for small children to laugh at him (as if his appearance and dialogue weren't enough!) so he has to cough around and move like an old man. I'm actually surprised he wasn't carrying a walking stick around with him!


I so agree about every thing you said. And with grievous seing him the first time in the clone wars I was like "HOLY SHIT! HE IS SO BADASS! I CANT WAIT TO SEE HIM IN EPISODE III!" ...Gorge...why? Why do you have to appeal to the kiddies. The Prequels sooooooooooo could have been better if you would just stay to the OT fromula. If you hadn't tried and appealed to the kiddies so much maybe you wouldn't of had Jar Jar *cringe. Heck I think the clone wars cartoons were better than the movies. The battle on Dantoine with Windu Kicked ass. Gorge... what happened? What made you turn to the dark side? sad.gif
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ROTS Grievous was never real, like young Ani, or Dooku, Or Jar Jar *Cringes.

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 03:36 PM

Well, I think the main problem is creating a new villain in each film, each of which you don't get enough time to either fully understand or like. Each one is introduced and killed within a maximum of 2 hours later.

Here's an estimate (rough) of the amount of time since a villain is shown on screen until he is killed:

Vader (in just OT): Approximately 7 hours
The Emperor (just OT): Approximately 3.5 hours
Maul: Approximately 2 hours
Dooku: Probably less than 2 hours
Grievous: About 1 hour.

If there had been ONE central baddy in the PT that would have been a huge improvement. The great thing about Vader (in the OT) is that by ROTJ you find yourself sympathizing with him and really intrigued by the mystery.

You never have enough time with any of the PT villains to look at them as anything other than a generic evil dude doing generic evil things.

This post has been edited by Chefelf: 13 November 2005 - 03:38 PM

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 04:38 PM

QUOTE
you'd think they'd have better ways to fight one another than simply to get closer and shoot at point blank range


Yeah, you'd think so. I mean, they could try, like, flying into a star or hiding then coming up lasers blasting, or something like that.
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 08:41 PM

flak
1.Antiaircraft artillery.
2.The bursting shells fired from such artillery.

flak basically means shrapnel. exessive airborne shells.

1. they are in space. any launched shrapnel will continue to fly off in their current trajectory.
2. how much shrapnel do you get from energy weapons?

i'm glad this was brought up. i thought i heard that line but chose to believe it could not have been said... ah... new depths.

--------

the worst thing about anikan stating that dooku should stand trial is that he brings it up again when mace wants to ice palpy.

now if he was convinced the first time that letting nasty people live was a bad idea from a pollitician, why won't he accept it from mace talking about the very dude who mentioned it in the first place. How fucking stupid do you really have to be to fall for that shit twice even more so with two opposing ideas.

1.
P: go on, kill him... it'll be a hoot!
A: No, i shouldn't kill the bad guy... the jedi council won't like that. he needs to stand trial.
P: he's too dangerous. pitty is for the weak... don't be a bitch!

2.
M: oh, hi annie. be a dear, and help us kill this bad dude would you?
A: No, i shouldn't kill the bad guy... the jedi council won't like that. he needs to stand trial.
M: uh, I AM the head of the jedi council, and i say we kill him... where are you getting these jedi codes from annyway?
A: eh.. him i guess...
M: is that true palpy?
P: don't look at me, I don't know what that kid's on... i told him to kill the bad guy this morning, myself!
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 11:52 PM

I never understood why at least ONCE a Jedi, or Obi Wan and Anakin at least, didn't KO a Destroyer Droid's laser arms (the one that rolls into combat, and not the bigger one that looks like he's on metallic steroids) and then use the Force to activate its shield enough to envelop them both to protect them from the other's laser blasts as they slap the droid in the bubble around as he tries to get free. Mechanical devices are supposedly easier to control than living ones, and the Jedi would have the skill to manipulate the time enough to put the idea into place.

The flak thing was done out of pure visual interest. The ships are newer on both sides, so the jump back into technology is inexcusable really. As for the firing of flak and its effects onscreen, it was my understanding that the battle too plave in the upper atmosphere of Coruscant and not in the deep vacuum of space, hence all the effects consistent with an inter atmospheric flight and the presence of flaps on a ship that big because it has its space/hyperspace mode of travel and its needs to manover in an atmosphere when coming into a landing. This is another aspect screwed up in the PT, because I assumed in the OT that the larger ships stayed in space and had the smaller ones go between the planet and the ship, but you see it docked on the ground as on Kassyyk with Ypda's ship. Great place for it as any enemy could blast it from orbit without any real effort and be done. And I think I'd want the platform orbiting to provide fire from above which can be done by Star Destroyers and I assume their prototype craft as Vader is told in ESB the reason they can't blast the Rebels from orbit because they have the shield generator. Why not then use a similar strategy on Kassyyk which could possibly not have a shield generaror like that?

You're dead on about the points regarding Vader. If it were to come to light that Lucas wanted to deconstruct and bastardize the evil icon he helped create it wouldn't surprise me, and I'd say he succeeded.
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Posted 14 November 2005 - 02:09 AM

One thing that I'm amazed both you and Chef missed was how terrible the Nemoidian captain's voice was on the Invisible Hand.

This post has been edited by Storm: 14 November 2005 - 02:11 AM

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 04:49 AM

I didn't miss that point, I was going to bring it up but I was too tired to write anything at that time. Not only is his voice bad, his entire character is wrong. I'll give more reasons and my comments on your comments later, right now I'm too tired after 8 hours of constantly busting my back trying to get my driver's license (and I suceeded! biggrin.gif )
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Posted 14 November 2005 - 07:54 AM

Another thing that bugged me was when on Kashyyyk the beach attack scene, the wookies let out a mighty yell run out of their trench and uh... Stand on the beach waiting for the enemy to get to them? What the hell?

They were fighting from presumably prepared positions wookie and clone trooper alike, yet why is there only 2 people in the 1 trench they have, what the hell are they thinking when there is a horde of vehicles driving at them, that they all stand around on the beach in the open and fire there small arms at all these huge armoured buggies racing towards them. At least be in the bloody trench guys!

Why oh god why is every single frigging clone trooper a CG, god its so blatently obvious, just manufacture a dozen suits George jesus christ. Why is it that every 3rd trooper in this film has a completly differnet helmet too! even in Episode II they at least had similar headgear but now everyone gets a differnet hat. Commander Cody (eherm) has a different helmet from ALL the other troopers ever seen, and hes not the only one.

George Lucas removed Vader's eyebrows in the Special DVD of the OT but Anakin still had them when he was put in the helmet....

This post has been edited by Zoring: 14 November 2005 - 07:58 AM

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#11 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 12:04 PM

Very good comments guys, I have to admit, some of you even came up with stuff that I never thought of, kinda shows just how weird this movie is at times... or all the time, anyway.

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I actually enjoyed this aspect (thought not the scene). Strategically it seems like it would have eventually come to this. The ships would try their best to eliminate each other from as far a distance as possible (missles, fighter compliments, etc.). Eventually the two ships would broadside each other until one wins!


Umm, just a tiny little nitpick there, it would be a tactical inevitablity if were to come to that, not strategic. Strategies are when the enemy is NOT in view and the battle isn't on yet, but rather has more to do with the war as a whole. Tactics is in the battlefield and getting your enemies' asses kicked. To quote an old saying, 'Soldiers think of tactics, Generals think of strategy'. Also, considering the firepower possessed by those battleships, the fight would be long over before they get so close that they're shooting at point blank range. If that does happen, they would simply be finishing each other off and nothing else.

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The thing is, why send more than two Jedi when the Jedi are shown to be completely invincible in the prequels? This is a problem with the PT as a whole but this scene seems to follow that rule (as dumb as it is).


Completely invincible? Are you forgetting how they totally got their asses kicked by the end of the movie? And let's not forget how they were completed defeated in the previous one as well. They are far from being invincible but are actually extremely vulnerable! The most hilarious thing is that the relative skill and survivablity of a Jedi is directly proportional to how important he is. Since Obi-Wan and Yoda must survive, they totally kick ass, but since everyone else must die... well... they can be finished off by firing two or three shots in their general direction and it's all over! *shrugs*

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Here's the wang??


'wang' means 'deal' as in 'here's the deal'. It's a slang word I learned on Newgrounds some years back. I'm very sorry if I confused you. sad.gif

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Very true. The problem, as I see it, is twofold:

1.) Telling a Jedi, who can control things with their mind, to put their hands up is stupid.

2.) The separatists have done a shitty job of adapting to the wartime tactics of the Jedi in the past 2-3 years. There are so many simple advances in weapon technology that could have been implemented to be more effective against the strengths of the Jedi. See my previous point about the Jedi being invincible.


1: You got a good point there, but don't forget that every time the Jedi try to control something with their minds, they usually do a gesture of sorts. Although I'm sure they might be able to do it without moving their hands, it could (just could) hinder their ability... then again, Luke lifted rocks and R2 in ESB while standing on one arm...

2: The separatists, like most other people in Sci-Fi universes, are idiots! biggrin.gif tongue.gif


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It is stupid that the only thing that makes them work so well is their shielding. Like you said, why not just put all your resources into developing these droids. They may cost a lot more but wouldn't it be better to have 4 million destroyers rather than 16 million battle droids? Especially considering that a Jedi has never defeated a destroyer and they're destroyed about 15 million battle droids.


Excellent point. But see my pervious point about them being idiots. Regardless of that, the equipment of the Jedi seems diverse and adaptable for many situation, with an exception of weapons. Do you remember the scene when Obi-wan shoots GG? He tosses the blaster away afterwards and remarks "so uncivilized" as he does that. Why is it uncivilized? So cutting people into a million pieces is ho-hum but shooting someone is barbaric...

It reminds me of the First World War. When America entered it, they used shotguns as close combat weapons. The Germans considered pump-action and semi-auto shotguns to be a 'violation of the rules of warfare and humanity' in war and they made it clear that they'd execute any captured soldier who used a shotgun. Despite this, these same Germans had no problem with trying to impliment sub-machineguns, barbed wire, land mines, poison gas, and other equally horrific and deadly weapons rolleyes.gif

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The battle on Dantoine with Windu Kicked ass. Gorge... what happened? What made you turn to the dark side?


is that the epsiode when Mace Windu destroys an entire army of battle droids and blows up a gigantic transport thing that had a huge earthquake producing hammer?

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I never understood why at least ONCE a Jedi, or Obi Wan and Anakin at least, didn't KO a Destroyer Droid's laser arms (the one that rolls into combat, and not the bigger one that looks like he's on metallic steroids) and then use the Force to activate its shield enough to envelop them both to protect them from the other's laser blasts as they slap the droid in the bubble around as he tries to get free. Mechanical devices are supposedly easier to control than living ones, and the Jedi would have the skill to manipulate the time enough to put the idea into place.



I simply never understood why they didn't just push the droid away like they do with the other ones. Or simply pick it up with the force and throw it against the walls several times to destroy it.

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The flak thing was done out of pure visual interest.


No kidding! biggrin.gif laugh.gif

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The ships are newer on both sides, so the jump back into technology is inexcusable really. As for the firing of flak and its effects onscreen, it was my understanding that the battle too plave in the upper atmosphere of Coruscant and not in the deep vacuum of space, hence all the effects consistent with an inter atmospheric flight and the presence of flaps on a ship that big because it has its space/hyperspace mode of travel and its needs to manover in an atmosphere when coming into a landing.


It's funny that those ships need all those devices of sorts... but never once used them in the entire series except for this moment. It could be possible that the reason why they were needed is because the ship was seriously damaged, but it still is no real excuse since if it took that much damage, it would probably be best if one abandoned ship or, if there was no danger of blowing up, trying to get it docked for repairs although it's hyperdrive capability would be severly hindered or even useless in this regard.

I still hold that having those flaps is a lame idea and the sole purpose they serve is simply to have a cool scene where they have them all extend.

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Another thing that bugged me was when on Kashyyyk the beach attack scene, the wookies let out a mighty yell run out of their trench and uh... Stand on the beach waiting for the enemy to get to them? What the hell?


Excellent observation of how stupid the battlefield tactics in the movie is (would Yoda say a line like that?). Defending soldiers are usually trained to take as much cover as possible as they fire on their enemies and, if they have the time, they'd have an entire defensive network setup where they're dug in and would defend their positions from those areas. Under NO circumstance are they to leave those areas unless to fall back to a previous position if their current one is too hot to handle. And if the enemies retreat, they are NOT to give chase to them as their mission is to defend their positions, once they do that and secure it, then they can make another mission to assault their enemies.

George Lucas removed Vader's eyebrows in the Special DVD of the OT but Anakin still had them when he was put in the helmet....

Remember that scene in the parody trailer 'a Lost Hope'? At the very beginning they show Darth Vader taking off his helmet and yelling 'this helmet is chafing my eyebrows... I SWEAR!'. laugh.gif
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#12 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 12:31 PM

QUOTE (Zoring @ Nov 14 2005, 07:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
George Lucas removed Vader's eyebrows in the Special DVD of the OT but Anakin still had them when he was put in the helmet....


That right there perfectly highlights the overall stupidity and problems with the prequels/special edition.
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#13 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 01:16 PM

You know what really stinks. Supposedly, Grievious pulled this awesome scheme to get Palpatine, yet we don't see it. Its like when your friend claims that some hot girl was hitting on him, but conviently when no one was there to witness it.
It would have been more entertaining to see the scheme and see Grievious as a calculating bad ass. But leave it to Lucas, to dismiss an interesing sub-plot. Im guessing because he lacks any kind of creative genius. devil.gif

This post has been edited by georgelucas4greedo: 14 November 2005 - 01:17 PM

It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#14 User is offline   Grievous_X Icon

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 04:58 PM

Yes Paladin. Yes it was. I wouldn't be surprised if Gorge didn't come up with that. sleep.gif
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ROTS Grievous was never real, like young Ani, or Dooku, Or Jar Jar *Cringes.

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 08:26 PM

that eyebrow bit is just disgracefull...

further proof that the 'upgrades' to the OT were not so much 'cosmetic' as defended, but more on the 'demolition' side of things...
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