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Nitpicking the Deleted Scenes?

#31 User is offline   Revan-47 Icon

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE (KurganX @ Nov 11 2005, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even better as amazon was selling it for $16!

Fair enough. And I agree with you, the deleted scenes are more of a curiosity, not really essential to the movie. You don't find yourself wondering why they were left out (though many people wanted the scene with Anakin meeting Padme's family back in because it made their relationship seem more real... but then it seems like Lucas was playing up the 'troubled relationship' angle, at least that's how it's turned out!).

What got me to thinking about the deleted scenes nitpicks was the fact that in your Reasons to hate Episode I you started talking about the deleted scene with Baby Greedo. It could have added some extra punch to watch it and maybe toss up a funny screen cap or something. wink.gif

'Sides, half the fun is listening to you make fun of the bad parts, but oh well. Your site...

I think what comes out in your SW pages is not just somebody nitpicking, but also a fan, talking about the good, the bad and the ugly in star wars. That's what's entertaining. Many fanboys miss that, not being able to get past the blasphemous that somebody could "hate" something they have devoted their lives to. It's true!
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#32 User is offline   Wanderer Icon

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 06:39 PM

i have a bootleg copy. i love it it rocks my face off.
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#33 User is offline   Grievous_X Icon

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 08:22 PM

yeah it's pretty cool.

I did think some where just pointless. Like the Shak-Ti thing, and Yoda and Dagohba< how evar you pronouce it.

But also why does Yoda want to go to Dagobah? Why no Fulucia, or some place cool. Probably why he died. Bugs probably laid eggs in his sandwich. Or he drank from the swamp.
Grievous fan. :P

ROTS Grievous was never real, like young Ani, or Dooku, Or Jar Jar *Cringes.

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#34 User is offline   Storm Icon

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 03:14 AM

QUOTE (Grievous_X @ Nov 11 2005, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But also why does Yoda want to go to Dagobah? Why no Fulucia, or some place cool. Probably why he died. Bugs probably laid eggs in his sandwich. Or he drank from the swamp.

There really is no explanation. I think it's just a matter of shame. He made the following mistakes.

1. Chose to uphold ridiculous rules such as "A Jedi Shall Not Love".
2. After discovering the creation of the Clones, chose to blindly trust them and work with them.
3. Failed to prevent Count Dooku from escaping Geonosis. In fact, I think Dooku could have killed Yoda if that duel was allowed to continue. Yoda never had the upper edge.
4. Could not deduce that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, despite the fact "the shroud of the Dark Side" surrounded the Chancellor.
5. Led a battalion of clones to Kashyyk which eventually ended up leaving the Wookies to be conquered by the Empire. I'm amazed Chewbacca and Tarful provided Yoda with an escape pod, rather than ripping his arms off. As his escape pod was travelling away, I can imagine the wookie translation of what Chewbacca and Tarful were howling would have been "Thanks for nothing, asshole".
6. Failed to defeat Darth Sidious 1 on 1. Again, Yoda would have been killed if he hadn't of retreated. But as Bail Organa said to Yoda while flying away,"At least you have it a good try, Master Yoda."

Basically I think Yoda realized he totally screwed everything up, and needed time to do a lot of thinking on his own. And so he travelled to Dagobah.
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#35 User is offline   Grievous_X Icon

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 02:29 PM

QUOTE (Storm @ Nov 12 2005, 03:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There really is no explanation. I think it's just a matter of shame. He made the following mistakes.

1. Chose to uphold ridiculous rules such as "A Jedi Shall Not Love".
2. After discovering the creation of the Clones, chose to blindly trust them and work with them.
3. Failed to prevent Count Dooku from escaping Geonosis. In fact, I think Dooku could have killed Yoda if that duel was allowed to continue. Yoda never had the upper edge.
4. Could not deduce that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, despite the fact "the shroud of the Dark Side" surrounded the Chancellor.
5. Led a battalion of clones to Kashyyk which eventually ended up leaving the Wookies to be conquered by the Empire. I'm amazed Chewbacca and Tarful provided Yoda with an escape pod, rather than ripping his arms off. As his escape pod was travelling away, I can imagine the wookie translation of what Chewbacca and Tarful were howling would have been "Thanks for nothing, asshole".
6. Failed to defeat Darth Sidious 1 on 1. Again, Yoda would have been killed if he hadn't of retreated. But as Bail Organa said to Yoda while flying away,"At least you have it a good try, Master Yoda."

Basically I think Yoda realized he totally screwed everything up, and needed time to do a lot of thinking on his own. And so he travelled to Dagobah.



7. Did not expell Aniakin from the jedi order. Gezz Yoda. Kids like him always turn to the dark side. Shouldn't there be Jedi stories like that telling you that Kids who almost all the time disobey there master, goes and stays with a girl alot, and is friends with a guy who is gaining more and more power and who has a shroud of the dark side around him. He also should have learned the first time with Dooku. AND he's like what? 800 years old?. shouldn't he have seen something like aniakin's story before? huh.gif

This post has been edited by Grievous_X: 12 November 2005 - 02:29 PM

Grievous fan. :P

ROTS Grievous was never real, like young Ani, or Dooku, Or Jar Jar *Cringes.

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#36 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 08:35 PM

i'm suprised no one plugged him for mouthing off on his first day in the counsel room...

obi should have cut his hands off after he spoke back in AOTC with all that "we'll find the dude" crap!

he never, fucking, once obey his teacher!!!
NOT ONCE!!!!

Yoda, if anything, whould have impaled himself on his sabre.

then he could have kept a closer eye on luke from birth in ghost form...
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#37 User is offline   Stray nerf Icon

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:50 PM

You know, if you collect movies like I do, that some DVDs have an option to play the movies with the deleted scenes re-inserted, especially ones that were cut for time...
Why couldn't they do that? Lucas rips off ideas all the time anyway......

Lucas has left a lot of important tid-bits out of movies that would make sense put back in. Some were never even scenes that got deleted, but were in the screenplay.

For instance, Obi-wan runs like a bitch from the STAPS in Episode one BECAUSE:
a) he is a bitch
cool.gif he was playing hard to get
c) he was trying to lure them to kill Jar-jar
d) he fell in water with his saber in stand-by mode and it shorted out.(or something like that)

The answer is D, I don't feel like looking up the exact line...but all we see is him running like a girly-man from the scary droids.
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#38 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 04:33 AM

QUOTE (Stray nerf @ Nov 15 2005, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know, if you collect movies like I do, that some DVDs have an option to play the movies with the deleted scenes re-inserted, especially ones that were cut for time...
Why couldn't they do that? Lucas rips off ideas all the time anyway......

Lucas has left a lot of important tid-bits out of movies that would make sense put back in. Some were never even scenes that got deleted, but were in the screenplay.

For instance, Obi-wan runs like a bitch from the STAPS in Episode one BECAUSE:
a) he is a bitch
cool.gif he was playing hard to get
c) he was trying to lure them to kill Jar-jar
d) he fell in water with his saber in stand-by mode and it shorted out.(or something like that)

The answer is D, I don't feel like looking up the exact line...but all we see is him running like a girly-man from the scary droids.


Clearly Lucas knew he'd be doing some wet Jedi saber action and wanted to leave himself an out...

Then again, when has Lucas ever cared much about continuity, right? wink.gif

Fan Edits exist for the previous prequels that put the deleted scenes back in (or at least the ones the fan editor likes), sometimes will trimming or deleting others.

Since Chef Elf isn't going to do it, anyone else up to the task of doing a comprehensive "Reasons to Hate" for the Deleted Scenes of all three movies? wink.gif
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#39 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 07:18 AM

It came out here today so I picked up a copy.

Thank god those deleted scenes were left deleted. Although there was some good moments in the shack ti one (I liked the different signals and "ok, I still have much to learn). The rebellion stuff was beyond dull, like those few AotC scenes I wish had got the snip.

looking forward to the mustafar thing though.

for the record, the ep1 doc, "In the beginning" is easily the best dvd extra ever.

add the family scenes back into AotC, they really help out a lot.

"Lucas is a yes man"

yes, ok... rolleyes.gif
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#40 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 09:08 AM

QUOTE (Storm @ Nov 6 2005, 03:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One thought that kept popping up in my head while watching the "creation of the Mustafar duel" feature was that I'm so happy I don't work for George Lucas. It seemed to me that everybody was extremely intimidated by his presence, and typically they would just turn into "yes men" for him. Several people commented that they were allowed to be creative, but I got the impression that Lucas had this concrete idea in his head and really wasn't interested in listening to other people's opinions.


I just watched it, and it wasn't "several", it was nearly everyone. Not only did we get a lot of people saying how much Lucas asks for their input (as well as Lucas stating this himself), but we got scenes of people arguing with Lucas and getting him to rethink things in the film.

I put the "yes men" thing in the same bracket as people who write Lucas with an $. Its an argument for people who don't really have an argument.

QUOTE
Lucas had this concrete idea in his head


yes, hes called the director.
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#41 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 02:10 PM

QUOTE
yes, hes called the director.


Even the director needs to make himself available to input and opinion - especially from the actors. Making a film is the exercise of creating organic unity between different elements.

If you have a director that's completely shut out from this process then, more times than not, you end up with another Michael Cimino or someone else in the countless other numbers writer/directors who have created box office and/or artistic failures through the years.

Not saying George didn't listen to anyone else - because ultimately we don't know - but I would say it's good money that he probably let his ego get in the way and didn't allow himself to hear what anyone else might have had to say.

This post has been edited by diligent_d: 24 November 2005 - 02:12 PM

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#42 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE
Even the director needs to make himself available to input and opinion


he did.

QUOTE
Not saying George didn't listen to anyone else


me either, because he did.

all Lucas was saying was that hes in control of the project, hes the heart of it, he has the final say (hes the director...) but that hes open to the opinions of others. Theres so much evidence to support this, vs. none from the "yes men!" camp, that i'm amazed people still trot this 'argument' out.
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#43 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 06:46 PM

So if he's open to others, then are you saying that not a single soul out of the hundreds working on the film or under him actually noticed the blaring plot holes and inconsistencies between the two trilogies? That it is was a case of mass blindness to the most basic of detail that afflicted everyone at Lucasfilms?

Because surely, one would think if he had more than two people other than himself reading any of the last two prequel screenplays, they would have immediately noticed the plotholes and flaws connecting the two pictures and said something about it.

If you're saying it is indeed such an open environment, why didn't anyone say anything the flaws? And if they did, why didn't he fix them?
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#44 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 06:54 PM

One of the CD-ROMs "Making of" the Special edition additions had Lucas in conference with a crew half a continent away and his crew of the usual suspects like McCallum et al adding the moving Dewback to ANH. George pretty much held sway with how things were going to be and no one else added or challenged the composition. granted, it was a minor scene, a touch up to an already established film classic, but I think it gives the idea as to how things go at those meetings. King George has his way, King George doesn't like to be challenged, and King George is more focused on a film that's a compilation of CGI SPFX scenes that loosly connect to a barely coherent story. His lifting of elements from the film Gladiator among others for AOTC for well, the gladiator like duel shows the guy is tapped out in the creativity area and I believe the frustration that comes from it as a result doesn't make him to most open individual to take criticism or suggestions to change.
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#45 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 09:18 PM

It may surprise you to know that not everyone in the world considers the minor flaws present in these two trilogies (made decades apart) to be “blaring” and actually find the pointless, endless nitpicking about trivialities to be a coconscious decision to avoid discussing everything that Lucas got right in bridging the gap, everything that has been improved in the saga through the addition of the PT. You think Lucas screwed up because he didn’t plan absolutely everything in the PT so you’d be able to sit down and say “oh so that’s why Owen doesn’t recognize CP30”.

Minor things are out of place, but they’re so minor I’d be surprised if anyone except the “loyal fanbase” even recognized them. The relationship between Vader and his son, the tragedy of a man who’s lost everything but wants Luke back (watch him as he sees Luke fly away in the falcon at the end of Empire), the Emperor, (now arguably one of the greatest screen villains of all time) casting aside one apprentice after the next, Vader in ep6, going back to that selfless kid he was and sacrificing himself for his son, the temptation scene (which he first tried with Padme), where now half of you wants Luke to accept, Luke who nearly succumbs to rage to protect the one he loves like his father did in Ep2…I mean I could go on and on about all the ways the saga has improved for me now, all the scenes that have become more powerful.

OK now I’m ranting, but a lot of people see trivialities and take them as major, damaging flaws. I don’t. Maybe some of his employees did too. Maybe they mentioned it. He recognized them too, but ultimately he’s in charge of the story. It’s his to tell. You have no idea how much of his original ideas and concepts have been changed since their original conception. I don’t either, but study the evidence and see how much he asks for advice and how much he takes on board. The “yes men” thing holds no water. Or can someone actually produce direct evidence (quotes from PT employees etc.)?
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