[Renegade]

Lol... a person who has no knowlege/lived there/no understanding of the actual culture there and then bullshiting about how the arabs have UNITED VALIENTLY behind Palestine bullshit. Arabs are anti Israel because it creates an enemy so they don't have to actually look within (which is the real problem).

There's a reason why Iran, Iraq, and the such are shitty, cause there govts blow, they blame others for there own failures (which is funny since they should all be amongst the richest countries) and they screw each other over when possible as well. Oh ya the Arabs are in love with helping palestine against the CRIMINAL Zionists but when it comes to the Kurds, they give a rats ass about giving the Kurds there rightful land. Bullshit. bulshit.bullshit. I'm not posting in this area nemore, its too anger enticing to hear someone commend Arabs and Islamic fundementalist regimes. It's retarded to listen to somoene say Israel is "imperialist" when in reality it did usurp power in Palestine/Israel but its not actually advancing into the OTHER arab states since except when attacked. Neway, im not posting in this thread nemore.

[Renegade]

Hizballah,

One last post about ur stupid hypocricy. Hezbollah is an organization that was BUILT by Iran to go abroad and create MORE govt's similar to Iran. It's BUILT on forcing their ideas views on countries ie. Syria/Lebanon. YAY FOR HEZBOLLAH CAUSE OH YA THEY BUILD SCHOOLS IN SYRIA THOUGH!

Well, as long as an informed council gives it away I suppose the natives just have to lay down and accept it...

And my point with that was a ARGUMENTATIVE POINT. Aparently though u have no reading comprehension or common sense. I simply pointed out that the UN gave em it cause they wanted too, not because the Zionists had a worldwide conspiracy and FORCED the world to give em it. Arguing skills/common sense/logical thought > you

This post has been edited by Renegade: 29 October 2005 - 10:58 PM

[J m HofMarN]

Arabs are anti Israel because it creates an enemy so they don't have to actually look within (which is the real problem).

Yes yes, continue your "blame the weak" argument. Why are you so much against Iran when both Egypt and Saudi Arabia are far worse dictatorships that survive with US backing? You care less about the pople of the mid east than you do about the imperialist agenda.

It's retarded to listen to somoene say Israel is "imperialist" when in reality it did usurp power in Palestine/Israel but its not actually advancing into the OTHER arab states since except when attacked.

South Vietnam wasn't imperialist either, but it surely was a tool of imperialism. Israel just so happens to be one of imperialism's more enduring, brutal, and useful tools. I pray for the day when that tool rusts and becomes useless.

On the Hizballah question, I see them as a group that helped to drive the US and the Zionists out of Lebanon along with the PLO. You doubtless see fault in that, but I do not.

not because the Zionists had a worldwide conspiracy and FORCED the world to give em it.

Zionists no, imperialists yes. The imperialist powers encompass and are in league with the Zionists, thus why fighting onei s the same as fighting the other. When the US suffers a defeat the Zionists do as well, and vice versa.

[Jordan]

Renegade don't leave, I read your arguments. I'm interested in this subject that is why I posted it. I have nothing more to say on it. Where is civillian? I wonder what hannibal would have said about this. Probably nothing important.

[Renegade]

Renegade don't leave, I read your arguments.  I'm interested in this subject that is why I posted it.  I have nothing more to say on it.  Where is civillian?  I wonder what hannibal would have said about this.  Probably nothing important.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mmmm okok since you read em sure.

[Renegade]

Yes yes, continue your "blame the weak" argument. Why are you so much against Iran when both Egypt and Saudi Arabia are far worse dictatorships that survive with US backing? You care less about the pople of the mid east than you do about the imperialist agenda.

It has nothing to do with blaming the weak. And Egypt doesn't count, they really don't have a means to be exceptional or atleast not in comparison to others. And my point wasn't that countries are good/bad because there friends with America, my point was there state run/socialist/islamic fundementalist regimes all have ruined those countries, including Saudia Arabia. Saudia Arabia, Iran, Iraq all should be amongst the worlds powers in economy and even militarily if they had their way. It's a joke that a country like Iran with 2nd in Natural Gas reserves and I believe 3rd in Oil Reserves has a sputtering economy. It's a joke that a country like Iraq under Saddam was waging stupid wars that it couldn't win against Iran and then Kuwait when in reality it could of had one of the strongest countries in the world if it just used its wealth properly, and same goes for American backed Saudia Arabia.

South Vietnam wasn't imperialist either, but it surely was a tool of imperialism.

South Vietnam was invaded by N Vietnam so I have no idea where your going with this..

On the Hizballah question, I see them as a group that helped to drive the US and the Zionists out of Lebanon along with the PLO. You doubtless see fault in that, but I do not.

If they were so intent on self rule, why are they also desperate to make Syria/Lebanon countries that mirror Iran's govt? Do you know the mission statement for Hezbollah originally? CREATE GOVTS IN MIRROR IMAGE OF THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION IN IRAN. Oooo but they build schools and hospitals so they must be good even though they give a rats ass about Lebanon getting the hell away from Syria.

Zionists no, imperialists yes. The imperialist powers encompass and are in league with the Zionists, thus why fighting onei s the same as fighting the other. When the US suffers a defeat the Zionists do as well, and vice versa.

Not really, America really loses nothing from Zionists "losing". In fact, its backing of Israel most likely hurts us more than it helps us considering we get more antimosity from the Mid East and more hatred. In fact, if I was president, I'd dramatically decrease any linking to Israel considering we gain virtually nothing militarily/economically from it. They do however lose a lot from us not helping them though at htis point, they are so much more developed military from being smart and getting help from people that matter, that they can't even be touched by anyone in the Mid East, not that neone there could now neway since Israel has progressed economically/militarily since its creation and the rest have basically stayed the same.

More importantly though, you completely disregard the two important facts that Arabs as a whole screwed Palestine just as hard as Zionists did on its creation by powergrabbing as much land as possible and they sit there and bitch slap Kurds when they want. My problem isn't with Palestinians being angry that 50 years ago, they got screwed out of land, my problem is with Arabs who pretend like they are on a noble crusade to protect Palestinians and who by now have done little to advance their own countries or protect any other minority that exists around that area or within their own country.

[J m HofMarN]

Jordan- Funny you should make mention of that name on this inoportune day...

state run/socialist/islamic fundementalist

Who else do you propose regimes be run by besides the state? The church? George Bush? The Grinch?

And no, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and moreover Iraq, fall under none of the two categories toy mention, though all of their governments are indeed state run, as opposed to being, say, run by pineapples. The only two things you mentioned which might be considered as differentiating between governments are systems of government which your imperialist agenda decries. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are simple dictatorships, little more.

You claim that Iraq could not win the wars against Kuwait and Iran? But had there not been imperialist interference? What then? Iraq would at the very least have taken Kuwait, and the Zionist Entity would have been utterly destroyed, as is just! You blame the weak for the failings of their attempts to throw off imperialim's yokes! If Iraq had won the wars with Iran and Kuwait Saddam could have continued on against Egypt and Saudi Arabia, uniting the Arab world. The people of many Arab nations had great respect for him and he may have been the Bolivar of the middle east. I do not maintain such delusions, believe me, but that was what the imperialists fear, and that is why no middle east nation can take too much power.

South Vietnam was invaded by N Vietnam so I have no idea where your going with this..

Then deny that the South Vietnamese government belonged to the imperialists. I defy you to do so.

As for the Party of Allah, I believe that they have won numerous elections in Lebanon, and I don't see why you are so opposed to them since by your own admission they do good work. Is it forbidden to people to choose their own mode of government if it displeases imperialists? What a foolish question of me, of course it is.

On the question of the Zionist Entity, it is doubtless that the imperialists have some use for it, or else why would they aid it? The Zionists did not build nuclear bombs, Weapons of mass destruction as our fearless leader calls them (at least when they're NOT in the hands of foul murderous Zionists) they did not build those bombs on their own. The reason the Zionist Entity is more advanced is that they gain millions in US tax dollars, and for this you very well know they must render some service in return.

I'm all for minority rights, but all in good time, and NOT while a terible force of impeialist and zionists faces down the entire world with their terrorism and threats. After all, would the civil war have been fought if Britain had been intending to invade at the time? The oppression of minorities is ingrained, and cannot be rooted out when such chaos as it might cause could destabilize a government threatened by outside forces. Though I know this isnt always the way things have to be. Cuba for instance granted all minorities decent rights even while facing an imperialist threat, but I know you despise them anyways because they defy your agenda of world domination on the part of the US.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 01 November 2005 - 03:15 AM

[Jordan]

Yay you're back. JM and Civillian vrs others is always fun to watch. Problem is we lost all the other guys with opposite opinions.

[civilian_number_two]

Arabs cut out girls' clitorises, and blame all adultery on women, so I say fuck em. This is a backward people, living more than 20 centuries behind us in human rights, and I would be more upset at the death of the last mountain gorilla than I would be to hear that the oil reserves in the Middle East had dried out and the era of OPEC was no more. Peace.

[Slade]

So so sum this all up:

Civ: Fuck the Arabs. (That thing about the clitorises? Just terrible... I hate misogynists.)
JM:Fuck the imperialists and Israel. Yay pan-Arabism!
Renegade: Fuck JM, fuck the some of the Arabs.
Jordan: *Sits down to watch people argue with one another.*

Oh, and you mean billions of tax dollars, not millions, JM. The last figure I read for the US budget was that eight billion dollars of the national budget is given to Israel, though I admit it was a long time ago.

[civilian_number_two]

PS: I didn't just mean Arabs. All Fundamentalist Muslims, including the Persians. Note this is not an endorsement of their enemies, or even really a damning statement about every individual. But, really, I mean, come on. Those people are fucked.

[J m HofMarN]

It is indeed good to see you back, Civ.

I don't really think that all Arabs or all Muslims are anti-women, infact Iraq and Jordan shine as models of secular states where women have a fair amount of rights. Iran and Saudi Arabia are of course just as you have said.

But things are different in the Arab world than in the US, and I think that if they're given time, and it's not forced on them the problems with how women are treated will cease, as will the stonings and public executions, etc. The Islamic faith and its followers just need time to mellow, as Christianity did.

[Renegade]

You'd think that would of happened a few centuries ago...

[J m HofMarN]

It took Christianity 2000 years to stop burning people at the stake and grant womens suffrage. Islam has only been around for maybe 1400. Look at what Christians were doing when their religion was 1400 years old. Do you not think that in perhaps 1000 years people will look back on us here in the US and exclaim "what barbarians they were then!"

[Renegade]

The difference is what Christians were doing 1400 years into their religion was at the year 1400.. look what was going on in regions that WERENT christian too.. they were doing virtually the same thing. The difference with Islam is that its a newer religion and thus you'd expect it to be ACTUALLY progressive compared to a religion that came 1000 years before it. The fact that Mid East has moved MORE to the right in the past 50 years is something to show that its really not becoming more progressive as time has gone by.