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Revolutionaries - Respect based on failure? Any truly successful revolutionaries?

#1 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 12:04 AM

I find it difficult to think of one revolutionary leader who has gained power and resisted corruption.
If so, could it be that our respect of leaders of revolt lies more in our appreciation of noble failure???

Apart from His Excellancy who has managed to calmly lead his village for decades now against the enemy across the land who seeks to come as a thief in the night, not one revolutionary leader can be found who can truly be held up as an example of fine leadership.
Perhaps the strengths needed to lead are incongrous to the strengths needed to sustain???

Edit: Random modly benevolence! thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by Slade: 16 October 2005 - 02:38 AM

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#2 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 12:08 AM

sorry, I typed congrous instead of incongruous.

Apart from that I stand by everything. EVERYTHING

Edit: I fixed it, because I'm feeling nice tonight. happy.gif

This post has been edited by Slade: 16 October 2005 - 02:39 AM

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#3 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:02 PM

I find it difficult to think of a perfect forum member, or a unicorn. So what?

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#4 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 08:32 PM

I am a perfect unicorn that is also a forum member, does that count?
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#5 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 09:26 PM

What about that time you were stockpiling boards with nails in them?

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#6 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 09:30 PM

No no, you were just trying to make my dorm room free for everyone but me to live in it and use my GameCube. There were no BwNiTs.
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#7 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 04:56 AM

What do you mean so what? You who worship Fidel Castro admit that there is not one leader - Castro obviously included - who has lived up to anything but the maxim that power corrupts. Ergo, Castro is corrupt and should be looked upon as a tyrant.
Shit, who ya gonna worship now?? I hear Ghengis Khan is getting a pretty bad wrap recently, perhaps you can chuck his poster on your wall.
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#8 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 07:05 AM

Castro is a god. Just out of interest, are you a conversative or a victim of the propaganda? Although, most of the first are the second too.
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#9 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 03:00 PM

What exactly is so Godly about him. His betrayal of Che? His intolerance toward homosexuals? His denyal of the prospect of free elections? His betrayal of all the liberal ideals he claimed as the impetus for his rise to power? His use of secret police, torture to keep said power?

Your right he is Godly, Old Testament God anyway.
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#10 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 03:30 PM

QUOTE (Dr Lecter @ Oct 21 2005, 07:05 AM)
Castro is a god. Just out of interest, are you a conversative or a victim of the propaganda? Although, most of the first are the second too.


Most of BOTH main parties members are victims of the propaganda.

Conservatives are assaulted by the liberal media, that's for certain.
The thinking ones are aware of this assault, and escape the victimization.

Say what you will regarding what I believe,
but you're the one who proclaims Castro is a god.
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#11 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 03:45 PM

Hehehehe. Liberal media... So cute...

But hey, if the conservatives think it's liberal, and the liberals think it's conservative, then everybody stops watching it, so I can't complain.
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#12 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 05:16 PM

The only people who have admiring love for Castro are white commy's outside of Cuba. They're usually between the ages of 17 and 26. They take liberal arts in some univeristy. They also have killer convo during pot smoking sessions. "it's the system, MAN"

They eventually out grow it. I think many cubans like Castro because they're used to him. They see him as a survivor.
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#13 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:12 PM

Patrick: Oh come on Renegade already did the "He's not perfect, ergo he sucks" argument. You might have made a good cheesecake last time you were baking, but was it PERFECT? If not it is certainly worthless.

QUOTE
His betrayal of Che? His intolerance toward homosexuals? His denyal of the prospect of free elections? His betrayal of all the liberal ideals he claimed as the impetus for his rise to power? His use of secret police, torture to keep said power?


His Excellency in no way betrayed Che Guevara and continued to finance him secretly after publicly breaking ties. His Excellency has decriminalized homosexuality and even allowed a gay wedding recently. His Excellency is faced with a monstrous imperialist state 90 miles away spending literally millions to overthrow him.

His Excellency is not the reason elections are impossible, the US is. If the government of Canada was capable of influencing American elections to install a candidate who would be a puppet of Canada would you REALLY want an election? No. His Excellency in no way betrayed his ideals. Under his reforms women and minorities gained voting rights. The poor were given free healthcare. Businesses were nationalized after years of foreign domination. This is not a betrayal, it is a stalwartness that has earned him several attempts on his life by the imperialists.

On the subject of torture I have not recently seen anything claiming that His Excellency's government tortures anyone, and according to Amnesty International they only hold 7 political prisoners who receive decent medical care and are not tortured. Compare this to how the US treats those who oppose them and you'll see one of many reasons why so-called free elections must never happen until the US promises not to interfere.

QUOTE
The only people who have admiring love for Castro are white commy's outside of Cuba. They're usually between the ages of 17 and 26. They take liberal arts in some univeristy. They also have killer convo during pot smoking sessions. "it's the system, MAN"

They eventually out grow it. I think many cubans like Castro because they're used to him. They see him as a survivor.


I don't know where you get that statistic. And why do they have to be white? There are plenty of African American progressives, as a matter of fact the Black Caucus has been fervently in favor of lifting hte blockade. The BPP supported His Excellency as well, and were indeed a communist group. Progressivism isn't just a liberal white ideal system. It simply looks that way because the government systematically destroys minority groups that oppose it.

As for Cubans liking their leader because they're used to him, bull. I think it might have something to do with the fact that they're not slaves to US corporations, that they can feed their families, that they can afford medical care, that ALL of them can vote (despite what the capitalists tell you) and that their country, for the first time in its history, is sovereign. His Excellency is like George Washington, only he's not a rich Christian slave owner. His Excellency is the father of the free nation of Cuba, and the American regime, much like the British after American independence, is determined to bring his country back into subservience. I tell you that as long as Cubans have pride in their country that will never happen, even if His Excellency dies.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#14 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 12:32 AM

I've never seen a non-white revolutionary/socialist/commy in North America. My buddy was one of those for a long time. He created a union of a drug store chain in Montreal, he built new basket ball courts for poor communities in Vancouver, he organized 200 people form Western Canada to march on the WTO meetings in Seattle, he has volumes of commy books (many on che and a few on castro).

He's my age now and finally started to grow out of it. He's still a pinko bastard but he doesn't pin up posters or support those groups that have secret ambitions to violently over throw the government.

I've been to a few of his rallies and sit downs. I've seen his type. Many of the women look like wicca practioners and the men wear those loose faggy sweaters made of wool or hemp. The ones who are over 30 look like they make 12 bucks an hour working at porn stores. LOL

Face it, your little collection of revolutionarys in this country are just watered down post secondary school kids. If they really wanted to over throw the government they would probably flee the country and join some shitty latin american gang. Build up on guns and come back and shoot city officals.

The only two successful revolutions in the history of mankind were the French and American. Castro had a phyrric victory, Russia turned into a shit whole, and China is an aggressive jerk. If Castro loved his people and nation so much, why didn't he let some one else take power so that the Americans would drop trade embargos on them. Put a front man in the chair and claim your like socialist europe.

The only way you can win is if you get the support of a portion or all of the army. Since every pinko in the states is aware of this, they know they are helpless, therefore they are reduced to talking about how great che is over a vegitarian roti roll and some happy planet guava juice. They're all a bunch of hacks who lead pretty good lives and have nothing to fight about.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 22 October 2005 - 12:34 AM

Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
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#15 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 01:19 AM

Just because you aren't disadvantaged doesn't mean you can't stand up for them. It's rather noble defending those who can't defend themselves without support like that.

It's nice to know that you are vehemently opposed to all progressive movements and stereotype everyone who's in them, Jordan. Enjoy your rare steak and and MTV. The sweat shop workers really are blessed to be forced to work for $35 a week when the bare minimum poverty line in their countrys are $37 so you can watch and wear what you want. Free trade thanks you!

And the French revolution failed miserably... Err... Which one are you talking about, exactly? It was kinda messy there for a good 150 years or so... I was assuming the 1797 one...
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