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I saw AOTC for the first time in ages last night ...and it was better

#16 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 07:15 PM

that's ok. We can be friends.
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#17 User is offline   Zatoichi Icon

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE (jariten @ Oct 17 2005, 07:45 PM)
I'm still surprised at peoples refusal to believe that the darkside was powerful enough to cloud the good (there was certainly enough talk of it in the films), or is it that people hate the idea that the Jedi weren't a group of invincible wizards?


I'm sorry, but if it was much more eloquently done, I would have believed it. I enjoy being able to suspend disbelief and not having to explain away much, if anything at all.

Here is something that no one can deny though, that Christopher Lee's performance was spectaculer. He was served a character done horribly and still managed to shine. If anything great came out of that film it was that.

I did enjoy the later bit of the arena scene, where all of the Jedi pop out of no where. Actually, I would think that that would show that their ability with the Force was not "shrouded by the darkside". Dooku might not have even seen that kind of response coming. What I disliked was that so many of the Jedi fell in battle. I was under the impression that each Jedi Knight was worth an army alone (even Xenduck, a PT lover feels this way). Participating in the battle were also many Jedi Masters. I'm not sure, but I think the entire Jedi Council was present. I also know that some of those present had happened to be Padawans. In my opinion, the Jedi would have whiped out the droids and Geonosians that they faced.

Now that I think about it. If there had been scenes in all three films that had the Jedi gradually getting weaker in their ability to use the Force, and also arguing about why this is occuring, I feel that it would have been acceptable.
Apparently writing about JM here is his secret weakness. Muwahaha!!!! Now I have leverage over him and am another step closer towards my goal of world domination.

"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto

Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
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#18 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 11:26 PM

Well, yeah I agree with you up to a point. But there’s in difference in having some explanation in the films to why the Jedi sense Palpatine to having no explanation at all. If the latter was the case, I’d be right alongside you. As it stands, its not brilliant, but at the same time I’m not really sure I would have appreciated even more dialogue scenes in the films. On top of that, I’m not even sure what kind of answer would be satisfactory. The Force works because It works. The last thing I want is for us to see Palpatine rubbing his dark side crystal to diminish the Jedi’s Force power or something. Dooku’s statement in AOTC adds to that ‘the end is closing in and the Jedi are powerless to stop it’ feeling that I mentioned in my first post and which I love about AOTC.

One of the things I hated about the Clone Wars cartoon is that it portrayed the Jedi as the invincible warriors they were never meant to be.
“No-one can kill a Jedi!”
“I wish that were so…”
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#19 User is offline   Zatoichi Icon

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 11:37 PM

I don't think that they were invincible, but they should have been made out to be extremely formidable. They are one of the reasons the Republic at that time had no need for a standing army. (Right before the start of the Clone Wars)
Apparently writing about JM here is his secret weakness. Muwahaha!!!! Now I have leverage over him and am another step closer towards my goal of world domination.

"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto

Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
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#20 User is offline   DarthTherion Icon

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 01:12 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ Oct 18 2005, 12:26 AM)
The last thing I want is for us to see Palpatine rubbing his dark side crystal to diminish the Jedi’s Force power or something.


Ahahahaha. That image is so hilarious.

Don't the prequels somewhat follow the pattern of showing Jedi decreasing in power? In TPM, Obi-wan and Qui-Gon Jinn come off as fairly strong Jedi Knights who manage to destroy a Sith apprentice. In AOTC, Obi-wan struggles against Jango Fett, and several Jedi fall during a massive battle. In ROTS, even the Jedi Masters fail to sense an attack coming at a crucial moment. It actually seems like the Force abandons them when the attack comes.

This process points to a reduction of light side powers over the twenty some-odd years covered by the PT.

On a somewhat related note, is there any way to find out exactly which Jedi were killed on Geonosis? I'll bet they've all been given elaborate backstories, haha.
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#21 User is offline   Zatoichi Icon

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 02:08 AM

How about something that is spectacular in all six films.

Personally, I would say the first thing that should come to anyones mind is the music.

The opening music and the beginning of the end credits are awsome.

Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes, Cantina Band, Ben's Death, TIE Fighter Attack, The Asteroid Field, The Forest Battle, Light of the Force, and one other I can't think of (well actually include all of the other songs) are all awsome.

The Imperial March is by far my favorite one.

Forgot a rebuttal: So how did Obi-wan manage to beat Anakin then? According to that theory, Anakin should have flat out whiped the floor with Obi-wan.

This post has been edited by Zatoichi: 19 October 2005 - 02:14 AM

Apparently writing about JM here is his secret weakness. Muwahaha!!!! Now I have leverage over him and am another step closer towards my goal of world domination.

"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto

Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
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#22 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:50 AM

The main issues I have with AOTC are problems I can't overcome mentally in any capacity enough to enjoy the film. The Jedi are just too stupid and incompetent to respect, even though they are ridiculously invincible warriors.

The whole bit about Jedi not being able to love is something I just can't get over. It just gets brought up after 4 previous movies where no indication is given that it's not okay. The idea that the Jedi aren't supposed to love and Anankin's situation is some sort of reason why they shouldn't is preposterous. The Jedi should be able to love and should be competent enough to balance that with their other Jedi duties.

Furthermore, Yoda's insistence that Anakin let Padme pass out of his life without feeling any grief or even missing here goes far beyond the Jedi's cool and calm philosophical nature and crosses right over into insanity. Sure, the Jedi should be smart and controlled enough to not be overcome with grief but not even having a moment of grief or missing someone is beyond that, it's just crazy.
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#23 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 07:56 PM

QUOTE
Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes, Cantina Band, Ben's Death, TIE Fighter Attack, The Asteroid Field, The Forest Battle, Light of the Force, and one other I can't think of (well actually include all of the other songs) are all awsome.


I really liked 'Across the Stars'. When I was playing Star Wars Lego I found myself humming along to the soundtrack. I guess those songs have infiltrated my memory more than I thought.

QUOTE
The whole bit about Jedi not being able to love is something I just can't get over


Well, but look what happened to Anakin when he couldn’t let go of either Shmi, then the greed that led to that made him not want to lose Padme in the same way. I mentioned this a few posts ago, but Yoda’s coldness seems inhuman, but this humanizes Anakins natural reactions all the more. He did what most of us probably would have done. All of his actions- being scared to lose his mother, blaming himself when he did, wanting revenge, wanting to keep the ones he loved by him at all costs etc. make him more ‘like us’. Lucas did the same with Qui Gon, who went out and did what he felt was right, as opposed to coldly sitting around an scratching his chin all day in the Jedi Council. Anyway, that’s what I see as the point of the whole `Jedi can’t love` thing.
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#24 User is offline   Smashman Icon

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 08:16 PM

Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones is one of the worst movies I have ever seen in my life. There are almost NO redeeming values. Maybe the arena fight scene and several other scenes. That's IT.

The whole movie is so cringe inducing it's almost enough to put me in a coma.
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#25 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE
but Yoda’s coldness seems inhuman, but this humanizes Anakins natural reactions all the more.

Well, Yoda's not human for one. But it's a point for Annie, score.

Remember from TPM? Anikan TELLS us, emphatically, he's human- Lucas the master of subtlety slips in another point.
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#26 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE
Well, Yoda's not human for one.


Yes,ok.

QUOTE
Anikan TELLS us, emphatically, he's human


He tells us he’s a "person" after (rightfully) feeling that Padme demeaned him. It’s got nothing to do with my points above.
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#27 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 09:49 AM

Ok, fine, I don't care what planet you're from. It's the wise two-headed announcer who calls him a human being.
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#28 User is offline   Revan-47 Icon

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Oct 19 2005, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The main issues I have with AOTC are problems I can't overcome mentally in any capacity enough to enjoy the film. The Jedi are just too stupid and incompetent to respect, even though they are ridiculously invincible warriors.

The whole bit about Jedi not being able to love is something I just can't get over. It just gets brought up after 4 previous movies where no indication is given that it's not okay. The idea that the Jedi aren't supposed to love and Anankin's situation is some sort of reason why they shouldn't is preposterous. The Jedi should be able to love and should be competent enough to balance that with their other Jedi duties.

Furthermore, Yoda's insistence that Anakin let Padme pass out of his life without feeling any grief or even missing here goes far beyond the Jedi's cool and calm philosophical nature and crosses right over into insanity. Sure, the Jedi should be smart and controlled enough to not be overcome with grief but not even having a moment of grief or missing someone is beyond that, it's just crazy.
cAN YOU name an example of the jedi being stupid and incompetent?
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#29 User is offline   Travis Mays Icon

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE (Revan-47 @ Dec 23 2005, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
cAN YOU name an example of the jedi being stupid and incompetent?


Well I sure can. Namely, the fact that Yoda doesn't go back to finish off Palpatine. He just abandons the entire galaxy and gives up and runs away. I always thought Yoda had more balls.
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#30 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 23 December 2005 - 09:23 PM

...he means in AotC.

and "finish off" Palpatine?!

This post has been edited by jariten: 23 December 2005 - 09:23 PM

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