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The last hope?

#1 User is offline   Darth Raider Icon

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 12:07 AM

Sorry if that has been discussed before.....
In Empire when Luke takes off for cloud city, Obi-wan says that boy was our last hope and Yoda says no, there is another...How could Obi-wan totally forget about Leia since he was there when she was born with the creepy OOMBAAA droid, and even discussed where she should live, with yoda and Detective Simone!
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#2 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 04:24 PM

Right! Major continuity error. GL will probably fix that in the newer special edition.
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#3 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 10:21 AM

Maybe they'll just add a scene into the PT that shows Obi-Wan being sexist.

"Girls aren't as good as boys at being Jedi."

Easy fix!
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#4 User is offline   xenduck Icon

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 10:57 AM

or it could be that ben was dead and yoda was dying and ben didnt think there was enough time to train leia but yoda was more optomistic after having seen luke's abilities grow so quickly!
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#5 User is offline   jerfus17 Icon

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE (Darth Raider @ Jul 25 2005, 01:07 AM)
Sorry if that has been discussed before.....
In Empire when Luke takes off for cloud city, Obi-wan says that boy was our last hope and Yoda says no, there is another...How could Obi-wan totally forget about Leia since he was there when she was born with the creepy OOMBAAA droid, and even discussed where she should live, with yoda and Detective Simone!



Yeah, that birthing droid (or whatever it was) was so lame. It looked like "Rosey" from the Jetsons. I cringed at how Padme' cried out each of the twins names as soon as they were born too - "Oh Luke! It's Luke" and "Leia, it's Leia" - NO REALLY?? Who did we think was going to pop out, Lando and Mon Mothma? Lucas has no subtley at all.

I'm sure our pal George will give us all the answers in the EXTRA-SPECIAL EDITIONS sure to come out in the near future, where a completely digital Alec Guiness will explain to a digital Mark Hamil how his midichlorian count had sky-rocketed, rupturing blood vessels in his head which in turn impaired his memory of Leia being Luke's sister all along - yeah, that sounds about like George Lucas' logic. blink.gif
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#6 User is offline   Giff Icon

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 03:00 AM

Maybe nobody expected Leia to be worth anything at all.

Using THAT logic, Luke WAS their last hope
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#7 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 12:45 AM

QUOTE (Giff @ Jul 27 2005, 03:00 AM)
Maybe nobody expected Leia to be worth anything at all.

OH. you mean because of who her Mother was. Agreed.
QUOTE (Giff @ Jul 27 2005, 03:00 AM)
Using THAT logic, Luke WAS their last hope

blink.gif
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#8 User is offline   Tpolg Icon

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jul 26 2005, 10:21 AM)
Maybe they'll just add a scene into the PT that shows Obi-Wan being sexist.

"Girls aren't as good as boys at being Jedi."

Easy fix!

No need to say it.
Lucas has given us three movies magnificently showing it! There are absolutely no significant female Jedi, none.
The only female Jedi to even have a speaking part is that bitchy librarian, who's words of wisdom are "if it is not in the data base, it dose not exist" (hum, no wonder the Jedi are extinct) and I am not even sure she is supposed to be a Jedi.
Now the Jedi could have been really cool as an all-male order, strength in the force is passed along in the Y chromosome or some thing, but nooooo. Instead Lucas liters the background with a bunch of female Jedi who hold their lightsabers like they were umbrellas, need help getting on the gun ships, never use the force or engage in a single acrobatic feat. Hum, maybe the force is passed along in the Y chromosome after all?
And then there is Aayla Secura, who joins Anakin in flouting the Jedi dress code. She never even gets to turn her lightsaber on. Of course she is obviously not there to fight, she is there to give fanboys erections.
So why doesn’t she turn on her lightsaber? Perhaps that would just be to provocative.
Well maybe Luke really is the last hope.
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#9 User is offline   Tpolg Icon

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 03:49 PM

Well shut my mouth!
Large Jackass, err I mean Gorge Lukas did have another speaking part for female Jedi.
While on her knees Shaak Ti got to say "forgive me master Kenobi I failed" just before Grievous fondles her tentacles and runs her though with her own lightsaber...mum mum You Go Girl!
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#10 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 07:48 PM

QUOTE
Who did we think was going to pop out, Lando and Mon Mothma? Lucas has no subtley at all.


That was some great imagery. tongue.gif
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#11 User is offline   Gerhard Icon

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 07:22 AM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jul 26 2005, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe they'll just add a scene into the PT that shows Obi-Wan being sexist.

"Girls aren't as good as boys at being Jedi."

Easy fix!


That would explain why Shmi Skywalker was not tested for Jedi abilities.

She gave birth to a kid that at 9 years of age could do more impressive things all the Jedi's Masters we see in the movie (Except if the Jedi's need to be alive in the next movies).

But no, Qui-Gon was only interested in knowing who was the father. Serves the weak PT plot I suppose.

This post has been edited by Gerhard: 31 December 2005 - 07:24 AM

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#12 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jul 26 2005, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe they'll just add a scene into the PT that shows Obi-Wan being sexist.

"Girls aren't as good as boys at being Jedi."

Easy fix!


LOL! laugh.gif

Anyways, Lucas would insert something even more stupid. I'll bet on it.
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#13 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 10:24 AM

How is this a PT flaw?
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#14 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 07:22 PM

Because Lucas made the Prequels in such a way that Obi-Wan was there when the twins were birthed, he KNEW Leia existed. All he had to do was do it in such a way as that Obi-Wan either didn't know about Leia or thought she died or something. Use your imagination. It's a prequel flaw, not an original trilogy flaw (and yes, Lucas is a perv for making them smooch earlier on, clearly he hadn't decided on this particular plot point at that moment, the characters can be forgiven for ignorance of course).

I admit it is tough because Obi-Wan seems to know the twins were seperated at birth, but you could just have him never find out about Luke until later ("Obi-Wan, in your exile, watch over the son of Skywalker, you will. A long time will it take, before ready he is to know his true identity." "I will do as you ask, master Yoda!"). He'll be on a "need to know basis" and the full knowledge of hiding the twins and Leia's identity will be something he learns when he enters the "netherworld of the Force" (rather than being ignorant and having to have Yoda fill him in on the details after he dies).

This post has been edited by KurganX: 04 April 2006 - 07:26 PM

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#15 User is offline   Casual Fan Icon

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:22 PM

Lucas dug a hole for himself when he decided to make Luke the son of Darth Vader. Keep in mind that Obi-Wan's talk with Luke in ANH was the only thing we knew about the time before (what was then) Star Wars until Luke meets Vader at the end of ESB.

Luke lives on Tatooine with people he calls "uncle" and "aunt", and he thinks he is the son of Anakin Skywalker. His "uncle" knows and doesn't like Obi-Wan, though he tolerates him. That much is known from ANH, and can't be explained away by the idea of Obi-Wan lying. So already, if Luke is Vader's son, we have a problem with explaining why Vader doesn't know or doesn't care that Luke has been living on Tatooine all this time.

Obi-Wan tells Luke that Anakin Skywalker was a jedi, a cunning warrior, a great pilot, a friend of Obi-Wan, and so on, and was killed by Vader. Then Luke meets Vader and Vader says, "no, wait, I am Obi-Wan." This sets up congnitive dissonance. Lucas resolves it in ROTJ by having Obi-Wan's ghost tell Luke that he was speaking in metaphors. OK. By the end of ROTJ, its confirmed by Vader that he is Luke's father and is not wholly evil. And Leia is Luke's sister (not necessarily Vader's daughter, incidentally).

Since ROTJ is part of the OT, I think we have to take the ROTJ information as a given. Lucas is now writing the prequels. This is what he has to resolve, given what he has already shown us in the OT:

1) Why does Vader leave his son to grow up alone with relatives on Tatooine?

2) If Vader knows that Luke is on Tatooine and is leaving him there deliberately, why doesn't he know where Obi-Wan is, and why does he finally send stormtroopers to the planet in ANH (who also kill Luke's family)?

3) If Vader does not know Luke is on Tatooine, as implied by (2), then how does Luke, Owen, Beru, and Obi Wan get there in the first place, and why is Tatooine a good hiding place?

4) Suppose Vader has never heard of Tatooine in his life, and would have no idea that his son is there. Then why did Owen say, on Tatooine, that Anakin should "never have left here".

5) Does Vader even know that he has a son? If not, how does he find out?

6) What exactly is Vader's relationship with Owen and Beru? Presumably at least one of them is related either to Vader or to Luke's mother.

7) Why does Vader not know that Leia is his daughter? This is especially apt since Vader tortures Leia in ANH! The best explanation is that he isn't his daughter (ie she is Luke's half-sister).

8) And who was Luke's and Leia's mother anyway? Why does she fall in love with a psycopath?

9) How can Anakin be such a "good friend" and a all around good Jedi and turn to the darkside? Anakin has to be effective as a Jedi to be plausible as Vader later on (if only Lucas had realized this!). So why the turn to the Dark Side? Maybe Obi Wan really screwed things up, and maybe that is why hung around Luke long enough to lie to him. Maybe the "dark side" isn't necessarily evil the way its implied in the OT. Maybe Anakin was caught in an impossible situation of some sort.

Note that (9) is essentially the Faust narrative, and is central to the whole concept of the prequels.

This is really a tall order, and by answering these questions, Lucas is already halfway to an interesting set of movies. How he actually answers them is another matter. Essentially Anakin Skywalker is from Tatooine, becomes a fairly pathetic jedi, is tricked by Palpatine into going over to the Dark Side, and then is cut down literally by Obi-Wan, who then hides his son on Tatooine. I think this is pretty disappointing.
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