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Calling out the bashers

#46 User is offline   Jejef Thgaron Icon

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 09:31 PM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Apr 2 2006, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He's in it for the money only was my point. You know, more screenings in a day to make more money? (Sure made a difference in the LOTR box rolleyes.gif ) And yes, maybe I'd of only seen it one time then, compared to twice.

Weren't cooler heads at LFL calling that it didn't need to be rushed so? However, I see your point:
Star Wars included a "damn" and "hell" here and there to give it a PG rating so's it wasn't perceived as a kid flick. Damn good thing it did.

You've been pandered to, Jejef. Search your own damn feelings.


Let's say you're a film director. You haven't done anything to produce any kind of an income for 16 years. You have half the money (if not less) than you used to have 16 years ago, partially due to a nasty divorce settlement. Let's pretend for a minute that we all need money to live and survive in this world. Let's say you decide to go through with a few films that provide a backstory to the films you made 16 years prior. You put a lot of hard work, time, money, and effort into creating these 'backstory' films. You present them to the world. Not your mom and dad... THE WORLD. Money starts pouring in. You're happy because you can now say that you are a working film director once again, instead of one that is hanging at the back of an unemployment line.

Lucas isn't after money. He is trying to show everyone his dream. How many different space related sci-fi spin-offs can list Star Wars as a role model? All of them (unless it's Star Trek related). If it wasn't for Lucas, we wouldn't have THX sound, which is a vast improvement over conventional surround. If it wasn't for Lucas, we probably wouldn't have seen physically realistic alien creatures until the mid to late 80's. ILM may not have existed. The movie we grew up with (A New Hope) wouldn't have existed. You can't tell me it's just about the money.
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#47 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 09:36 PM

modern childrens' movies are patrionising and condescending to kids.

excluding the ewoks in the rotj who were clearly put there for children (and i'll exept cheeper than making a hundred wookies)

how is star wars a kids film?

i mean what's the rule here... theres no swearing and nudity so its a kids film...

as that what being an adult is all about...

unless you cop a blowjob from the damsel in distress, all adventure films are 'kids films' ?

that's lame.
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#48 User is offline   Jejef Thgaron Icon

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE (barend @ Apr 2 2006, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
modern childrens' movies are patrionising and condescending to kids.

excluding the ewoks in the rotj who were clearly put there for children (and i'll exept cheeper than making a hundred wookies)

how is star wars a kids film?

i mean what's the rule here... theres no swearing and nudity so its a kids film...

as that what being an adult is all about...

unless you cop a blowjob from the damsel in distress, all adventure films are 'kids films' ?

that's lame.


My point exactly, Barend. Star Wars is a film for people of all ages. Yeah, there's some stuff in there for kids, but there's stuff in there for grown adults, too. And, yes, modern childrens' movies are very patronising and condescending to kids. I agree completely.
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#49 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Jejef Thgaron @ Apr 2 2006, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And, yes, modern childrens' movies are very patronising and condescending to kids. I agree completely.
Phantom Menace is a modern children's movie.
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#50 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 11:41 PM

Lucas asked the children watching TPM to think- who is Palpatine, why is it Naboo thats in trouble, who actually wins at the end?
Even if its only a little, how many other "modern childrens movies" (which I agree TPM is) can say they asked anything of its audience?

TPM has flaws coming out of its ears, but Lucas nailed it in places.
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#51 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:09 AM

yes... he managed to nail the bits that would impress children, like the SFX, Jar Jar, and a mystery the famous five wouldn't have bothered with due to sheer ease.
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#52 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:17 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ Apr 3 2006, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lucas asked the children watching TPM to think- who is Palpatine, why is it Naboo thats in trouble, who actually wins at the end?
Even if its only a little, how many other "modern childrens movies" (which I agree TPM is) can say they asked anything of its audience?

"Flight of the Navigator?"
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#53 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:36 AM

that was the 80s.

80s kids films were awsome.

cloak and dagger, goonies, gremlins, goulies, etc. wink.gif

TPM was still pretty condescending.

"yipee" to denote he's a child.

how many children actually say "yipee"
did he get that from a 1930s comic?

and they antics of jar jar.
just shamefull...

mr.durp.
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#54 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:42 AM

I'd like to point out that San Andreas doesn't support prostitution of the sort where gals have sex for money and then spend the money on food and shelter, like a job. San Andreas supports prostitutioon of the sort where gals have sex so that they can avoid getting their throats cut by their merciless pimp who takes all of their money and supplies them with just enough food to stay alive, and just enough heroin not to want to leave. Anyone who thinks that American prostitution in practice (not in thoery) is not a basic evil ought to watch the Hughes Brothers' fine documentary AMERICAN PIMP.

Also in the GTA games you have sex with the prostitutes to regain health, and then you can kill them to get your money back, plus some profit. The game is not really promoting a safe sex trade.

The STAR WARS films are kids' films, agreed, but I wouldn't say that they ask children to think much. There is no subtlety at all in the series, especially now that the backstory has been expanded and explicated to the point that it itself needs a backstory. On this subject, by the way, everyone should see TRISTRAM SHANDY, about the best film version I imagine possible of that inpossibly unfilmable "novel." It's just fucking amazing.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#55 User is offline   KurganX Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 01:38 AM

To be more realistic GTA should make having sex with the hookers randomly reduce your health (STD's!). I assume raising your health is to simulate you feeling happier because you just had sexual pleasure. Obviously they just threw it in for prurient interest and make it "edgy."

Btw, lots of old tales supposedly meant for kids contained gore and even sexual innuendo. Of course it was the "use your imagination" kind of thing, so some people consider that more acceptable than showing it (another argument people use against say, banning the Bible from kids in elementary school/libraries just because it depicts sex and violence).

Then there's the old Warner Bros. cartoons with all their slapstick violence and again, sexual innuendos and stuff. Back before ratings systems and with the old style shows, they would put in stuff that the adults would catch but the less sophisticated kids not.

Lucas claimed he meant ANH for kids (6, 7), and ROTJ for older kids like age 11 or 12. I believe he observed the same logic with the prequels. Its as if he starts with young kids in the first movie and by the time the third movie is out they are teens.

ANH and TPM both fail somewhat as kids movies, because frankly there are big stretches of boredom where nothing happens. I thought ANH was boring as a kid except for the middle (where they're running around shooting on the death star and you see the lightsaber fight, etc. even the battle on the death star is long and tedius for a kid's attention span of that age). TPM is all this political gossip and palace intruige that appeals more to adults anyway, but that's the middle, the Jar Jar stuff appeals to young kids and annoys adults. The action and stuff at the end appeals to both. As an adult I greatly appreciated the artful pacing and presentation of the Death Star Trench run and the politics of the Empire/Rebellion and the heroic journey of ANH, something I totally missed as a kid. As a kid I was sick of all the wandering around in the sand, and wanting to get to the action and adventures. Jedi appealed to me more as a kid with all the action, adventure and creatures. But supposedly ROTJ was aimed at older kids by Lucas because of putting Leia in the bikini and putting in all the psychological stuff with trying to turn Luke/Vader. And he tries to appeal to kids with the "teddy bears" which never really touched me as a kid. I just thought of them as part of the scenery at that age, not the true heroes of the saga or what drew me to the movie.

This post has been edited by KurganX: 03 April 2006 - 01:48 AM

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#56 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 01:47 AM

I actually forgot about Cloak & Dagger. As a kid, I loved that movie.

Wonder how it's aged?
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#57 User is offline   Sailor Abbey Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:18 AM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Apr 3 2006, 01:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd like to point out that San Andreas doesn't support prostitution of the sort where gals have sex for money and then spend the money on food and shelter, like a job. San Andreas supports prostitutioon of the sort where gals have sex so that they can avoid getting their throats cut by their merciless pimp who takes all of their money and supplies them with just enough food to stay alive, and just enough heroin not to want to leave. Anyone who thinks that American prostitution in practice (not in thoery) is not a basic evil ought to watch the Hughes Brothers' fine documentary AMERICAN PIMP.


Of course there are professional prostitution practices and then there are despicable practices. The events you described are very real and utterly tragic. I of course am supporting the upscale escort services and burlesque houses where women work for themselves and receive exorbitant amounts of money for 5 minutes worth of work. Having to fuck for pimps and crack rocks is never ok.

QUOTE (Jejef Thgaron @ Apr 2 2006, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh... and why did 'spinach' give Popeye abilities some would consider... unnatural?


Because spinach is chock full of nutrients and tasty goodness. I always thought they had him eat spinach because they were trying to trick kids into eating something healthy that they normally wouldn’t like to eat. Like broccoli.
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#58 User is offline   Gerhard Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 01:27 PM

QUOTE (Jejef Thgaron @ Apr 3 2006, 03:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I never said you were dumb, or intellectually inferior. I never implied you were dumb, or intellectually inferior. I said you did not understand the movies. I didn't understand Lost Highway... that doesn't make me dumb, it just means I didn't know what the hell was going on because I only saw the movie once, and it didn't make sense to me. I don't understand advanced trigonometry. It doesn't make me dumb, it means I just don't get it. I don't claim to be smarter than anyone here. I am, however, under the assumption that most people don't understand the whole Star Wars saga from some of the "inconsistencies" and "nitpicks" that I've read. Many of these complaints are explained within the movies, and they are widely overlooked. Since nobody catches them, the movies are considered inferior by the majority of bashers. I'm not a gusher, either. I didn't like ROTJ, or TPM. ESB is my favorite SW movie. It is the bashers' opinions that make the entire OT look flawless... but there are just as many flaws in the OT as there are in the PT. So, what do they do? Call George Lucas an idiot, and proceed to insult the intelligence of anyone that liked the PT. I'm not smarter than you, I just have a greater understanding of Lucas' work.

Oh... and why did 'spinach' give Popeye abilities some would consider... unnatural?


I accept your comments of not calling me dumb.
However the fact that I participate in this forum does not mean I Agree with all nitpicks of Chefelf, with some yes, others not really.

I don't like the PT because of the following main reasons:
- Anakin Skywalker (bad actor, no charisma, and silly development, I could relate to Luke, I can't relate to Anakin in the PT he just seems a spoiled teen and I was under the impression Anakin was a "good friend", never saw that)
- Yoda/Palpitine Fighting, so Anti-Starwars, so unreal, so anti was established in the OT for this characters
- Padme dying out for no reason
- yoda going to exile for no reason
- Anakin's Pathetic turn to the Dark Side (yes I know fan boys claim it was a long process, something that it even make's it worst)
- Small universe (yoda pal with Chewie, Father Fett is the source of the clones, Anakin Built C3PO, R2 was Anakin's personal droid etc)
- unbelievable/Forced plot triggers (anakin taking 10 years and some nightmares to return to his mother, which dies almost after is found by Anakin, clones used by jedi not knowing who paid and why they were created)
- Lack of chemistry for the main romance of the movie.
- Losing time with pointless action (pod race, wokkie battle), rush on other more important stuff (all ROTS is rushed)
- Over exaggerated lightsaber battles
- Annoying characters (Jar Jar, The bad guys of the trade federation, Watto, Grivious)
- CGI overdose (making it all so artificial)

You are right, I failed to understand the the work of Lucas in the PT.
Maybe is because I can't see it like you, or maybe is because Lucas did a terrible set of movies.
I was expecting a lot more, and I was expecting them to be worst than the OT. however I never expected them to be an insult

Only reason I can find to call Lucas an Idiot he's because he does no release a remastered theatrical version of the OT as an option to the awful 2004 DVD editions. Other than that, he can do whatever films he wishes.
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#59 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:41 PM

QUOTE (Sailor Abbey @ Apr 3 2006, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course there are professional prostitution practices and then there are despicable practices. The events you described are very real and utterly tragic. I of course am supporting the upscale escort services and burlesque houses where women work for themselves and receive exorbitant amounts of money for 5 minutes worth of work. Having to fuck for pimps and crack rocks is never ok.
Because spinach is chock full of nutrients and tasty goodness.

I hope you recognise that I was not talking about prostitution as a profession, but about the GTA series of games, which you were defending on the grounds that they promoted a profession that was "not that bad." The GTA series of games do NOT promote prostitution as you describe it. I wouold say that they don't promote it at all of course, but they DEPICT it as fucking streetwalkers for health and then murdering them for their money. They DEPICT the most negative aspects of the industry.

Back on topic: I don't remember STAR WARS making me think. I don't see that as a requirement of a children's movie anyhow. I remember it being entertaining. THE PHANTOM MENACE I didn't find entertaining. Hard to say if I would have liked it as a kid; when I was 10 I recognised that BATTLESTAR GALACTICA was terrible.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#60 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:49 PM

Old Galactica, not New, I assume?
Want a Tarot reading?

PM me, we'll talk.
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