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Why I believe [I]Return of the Jedi[/I]... ...is considered the worst of the OT

#1 User is offline   Smashman Icon

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 12:34 PM

And here it is...

...the disjointed plot.

You have the whole Jabba the Hutt scene taking up the whole first half hour. Jabba the Hutt is an awesome character in him/itself, but many want to get back to the Luke-Vader story left lingering at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. We all care about Han Solo, and many of the action sequences are entertaining. But- people want to move onto the overall Rebels vs. Empire story. Afterwards, we do. But... what does the DSII and Endor scenes have to do with the Jabba the Hutt scenes at the beginning. If they could have "glued" those scenes together to make it one cohesive whole rather than two disjointed parts, the film would be considered greater.

Also, the Ewoks.

Do you agree?
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#2 User is offline   Zatoichi Icon

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 08:54 PM

Well, we all know the answer for the Ewoks. Make them more viscious, make them have many more seeable (not offscreen) causalties, and make them have a slightly harder time wiping out the Imperial Forces. What I would give for spike pit traps. That would have also made the original ending seem very different. In battle they are fearsome, when partying they are cuddly. In other words, never get on thier bad side. They are willing to lay down their lives for a cause/god.

Tying the movie together better would have been appreciated as well. The original version of Jabba's palace looks a lot less stupid than the new version.

This post has been edited by Zatoichi: 21 September 2005 - 08:55 PM

Apparently writing about JM here is his secret weakness. Muwahaha!!!! Now I have leverage over him and am another step closer towards my goal of world domination.

"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto

Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
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#3 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 10:56 PM

And then there are some people who just hate third installments/final acts/final arcs on general principle. ROTJ could have been done in the way that all the die hard fans profess it should be (no Ewoks, no Jabba, etc) and there would still be people out there complaining about what a letdown it is.

That and some people just don't like to believe in the possibility/hope of redemption.
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#4 User is offline   theredbaron Icon

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Posted 05 October 2005 - 12:10 AM

QUOTE (Lord Aquaman @ Sep 21 2005, 10:56 PM)
And then there are some people who just hate third installments/final acts/final arcs on general principle. ROTJ could have been done in the way that all the die hard fans profess it should be (no Ewoks, no Jabba, etc)  and there would still be people out there complaining about what a letdown it is.

That and some people just don't like to believe in the possibility/hope of redemption.


I think that if the Ewoks were Wookies and Endor was Kashyyyk as originally planned, it may have been more believeable, but perhaps making the Ewoks more warlike would have made the difference. The 'Jedi Rocks' scene is of course redundant, out-of-place, and distracting to the overall movie. Having a second Death Star is a bit of a cop-out, but I'm not so sure I could offer a better alternative. I have read in many places that having a Death Star at the end of the third film was always intended, but because GL wasn't sure he was going to be able to make sequels, he pulled it forward to A New Hope. I think if there was no Death Star in A New Hope (and Leia was rescued from a ship or an Imperial Base or something instead), then the concept of a Death Star in ROTJ would have blown us away. Of course, there's no way I'd recommend changing this stuff now (GL would just murder it).

What I really would have liked to see is further development of the Vader-overthrowing-the-Emperor subplot that was introduced in ESB.
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#5 User is offline   Zatoichi Icon

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Posted 05 October 2005 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE (theredbaron @ Oct 5 2005, 01:10 AM)
What I really would have liked to see is further development of the Vader-overthrowing-the-Emperor subplot that was introduced in ESB.


Something that I find irritating when I think about it is the rule of two Sith. First of all, at many times in the EU Palpatine had many Dark Side force users. Even some of the Imperial Gaurds had a limited ability to use the force. In ESB wouldn't Vader wanting Luke to join him + the Emperor (what they talk to each other about) ring some bells in the Emperor's head. For such a great mastermind that would be a horendously stupid and very risky chance he'd be taking. Sticking the three of them in a room would result in the death of at least one of them. If Luke turned to the Dark Side, either Vader or the Emperor would probably die. A 50/50 chance to result in his own death, yeah that's really intelligent to do. This agreement also coming from the guy who doesn't trust his apprentices and is a treacherous man himself. I liked it better when I believed that no one else could handle the job of being a Sith in the galaxy at the time.

Also, Anakin goes on about how he can beat the Emperor and rule, but at least twice he tries to get family members to help him out doing it. He goes on about how powerful he is when in reality, he is full of shit. In twenty-some-odd years, he probably hasn't even tried to overthrow the Emperor.

This probably goes for many people: each time I think about the PT I hate George even more.

This post has been edited by Zatoichi: 05 October 2005 - 11:12 AM

Apparently writing about JM here is his secret weakness. Muwahaha!!!! Now I have leverage over him and am another step closer towards my goal of world domination.

"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto

Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
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#6 User is offline   theredbaron Icon

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Posted 05 October 2005 - 12:05 PM

I tend to ignore the PT when discussing these things. The 'Rule of Two' only serves to confuse things.

But if you want to be more confused, the novelisation of Star Wars: A New Hope contains some interesting things:
- The emperor is a benevolent ruler with the good intention of uniting the galaxy who withdraws and becomes out of touch with the People. The regional governors and such basically manipulate him and tell him that all is well.
- It says that Darth Vader is the Dark Lord of the Sith, but it also says that he is one of many Dark Lords.

But if you wanna see a really primitive version of GL's screenplay for Star Wars, check this out:

http://www.godamongd...ipts/swd1.shtml

It is sooo different to what it has become, but you can see where it all came from, even ideas from the PT...
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#7 User is offline   DarthTherion Icon

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 12:23 AM

I thought the "rule of two" was more of a guideline, something the Sith established to cut down on in-fighting. They don't have to stick to it. Especially after they've succeeded in their plan to rule the galaxy.

The Emperor *does* want Luke to kill his father and take his place. And Luke very nearly does.

Problem solved.
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