[Lord Aquaman]

After a series of little films in the 60s and 70s dealing with personal "human" stories, Irvin Kershner achieved his greatest popular success with The Empire Strikes Back, then about ten years later he made the craptacular Robocop 2, which many believe killed his career and resulted in his retirement.

I guess every director needs to make a few bad ones, but how Kershner could go from making a good film like "Empire" to a lousy one like Robocop 2 still boggles my mind. I like to think that Robo 2 had an extensively long laundry list of problems that went well beyond Kershner's control, but there must be more to it than that.

What do you think?

[georgelucas4greedo]

Well, interesing point, but every director has his/her share of crappy movies. Speilberg had his "1941". Coppola had "Godfather 3".

I sincerely believe that there is such a thing as the ESB curse. After ESB, the whole Star Wars universe got sucked into a black whole. We lost Gary Kurtz and gained the magical muppet kingdom in ROTJ. We lost interesting plot twists and got the back story of who? Boba F'ing Fett. We lost the Force and got midiclorians...still pissed about that!!! We lost creepy terrains and planets and got a planet entirely made out of volcanoes for god-sakes!! We lost Vader and got some little prissy blonde haired loser!! I think the ESB was filmed on some kind of Jawa burial ground and the Jawa spirits cursed Star Wars and all involved forever!!

[Smashman]

Steven Spielberg made Hook (film with mixed reviews), Empire of the Sun and A.I.

Irvin Kershner had a great vision, and made such great character driven films. The Empire Strikes Back is one of them. Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Boba, Yoda and Vader all drive the plot in some way. The CHARACTERS drive the story here.

In A New Hope and Return of the Jedi, the plot drives the characters actions. Quite the opposite. This is why many believe the middle film is the best, and I would very much agree.

[Revan-47]

Steven Spielberg made Hook (film with mixed reviews), Empire of the Sun and A.I.

Irvin Kershner had a great vision, and made such great character driven films. The Empire Strikes Back is one of them. Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Boba, Yoda and Vader all drive the plot in some way. The CHARACTERS drive the story here.

In A New Hope and Return of the Jedi, the plot drives the characters actions. Quite the opposite. This is why many believe the middle film is the best, and I would very much agree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

are you saying that empire of the sun was a bad movie?

[Lord Aquaman]

I never saw "Empire of the Sun" but I usually heard it was good -- though that doesn't mean it was a box office hit.

So... how many of you have sen "Robocop 2"? I saw it, and I must say it was not a pleasant experience. The action sequences were well executed and the Leonard Rosenman main theme is easy on well done, but the rest of the film just doesn't measure up.

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 22 September 2005 - 09:04 PM

[Chefelf]

Well, interesing point, but every director has his/her share of crappy movies. Speilberg had his "1941". Coppola had "Godfather 3".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right.

And even Lucas had his "Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace", "Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones", "Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith", "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom", "The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones", "More American Graffiti ", "Howard the Duck", "The Ewok Adventure", "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor" and "Tucker: The Man and His Dream."

[Despondent]

[Revan-47]

I never saw "Empire of the Sun" but I usually heard it was good -- though that doesn't mean it was a box office hit.

So... how many of you have sen "Robocop 2"? I saw it, and I must say it was not a pleasant experience. The action sequences were well executed and the Leonard Rosenman main theme is easy on well done, but the rest of the film just doesn't measure up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it was a sleeper but it was one of the most incredible movies ive ever seen. lets face it, Episode 1 was a box office hit. that doesnt mean shit.

[Prequel dialogue coach]

Kershner did his job of bringing the star wars characters to life - that was his main job and he did it very well because he had experience in other films doing this. also larry kasdan and Leigh Brackett did an exceptional job writing the screenplay. the talent involved in this film was excellent. unfortunately George got rid of Kurtz, Kershner never returned for some reason as did his editors paul hirsch and paul chew who he fell out with over the cutting of ESB. since then it's not exactly gone uphill