[Smashman]

I think it would be best if the prequels are just forgotten, remembered only as abysmal imitations to our beloved, classic originals. I think it is best if the original, GOOD trilogy stands by itself. All backstory can be left to our imagination.

The whole entire prequel trilogy is filled with plot holes and inconsistencies that we all know about realize (all except for the most in-denial Star Wars fanboy).

I liked it better that Darth Vader, Obi-Wan, the jedi, Boba Fett and everything was left to our imaginations. Now, not only do we have a prequel trilogy, but we have a BAD prequel trilogy.

So, what do you think?

[Otal Nimrodi]

That this has already been said?

Edit: Sorry, bit angry at the moment.

This post has been edited by Otal Nimrodi: 17 September 2005 - 06:30 PM

[Smashman]

Sorry you are angry, Otal Nimrodi. Hope the anger fades away soon.

[diligent_d]

Yeah, I've already forgotten about the prequels and don't hold them in any way as being a part of the "canon". Boba Fett will remain an enigma to me, insects didn't build the Death Star, Yoda never knew Chewbacca, Jar Jar never existed, and Storm Troopers aren't clones.

This post has been edited by diligent_d: 17 September 2005 - 07:52 PM

[yourUsername]

As long as there's a direct comparison to the OT and the PT, there's always going to be some sort of unhappiness in the dogmatic, literalist fans. Stand alones, I enjoy them for what they are, and forgive the inconsistencies when viewed as a whole. But, yeah, they don't go together as seamless as I would have liked.

[Smashman]

A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi are all classics I will cherish until the end of time.

All three prequels detract from the OT, and the OT works better as a stand-alone, self-contained story.

[StarWarsIsUs]

Accept ROTS as a good answer to what happened before Ep.IV, and ignore TPM, and AOTC.

[Darth Player]

From imdb.com's biography of Anthony Daniels (C-3PO):

As C-3PO, he has the first line in the first Star Wars (Star Wars (1977)) and the last line in the last Star Wars (Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005)).



"The first film spoke to everyone on the planet. It still works as a funny, bright movie. It still has legs. [on 'Star Wars']"

"George's devotion to digital effects over-balanced the films. Too many digital funky characters become a little bit wearing. The storytelling always gets subsumed. [on Star Wars]"

'nuff said

Thanks George!

[Smashman]

StarWarsIsUs and Darth Player's posts are brief, yet speak volumes.

Here is another post from someone else from another forum, but I agree wholeheartedly.

"After much thought (and after watching Attack post-Sith), I decided the best way of viewing the Star Wars Saga is to simply watch 3 to 6 and pretend 1 and 2 don't exist. There's actually no reason for 1 and 2 to exist. Anything vital is covered in exposition dialogue or visuals in Ep.3: Palpatine informs us that Dooku cut off Anakin's arm; Palpatine and the opening scroll inform us that Dooku is a Sith Lord and the galaxy is at war; it's made clear from various dialogue that the Sith and Jedi don't get along; Obi-Wan and Mace and Padme inform us that Palpatine has used the war to stay in power longer than he should have; Anakin informs us that the Jedi have been searching for a mysterious Sith Lord; Obi-Wan informs us that he's been training Anakin since he was a boy; Anakin and Padme inform us that they have a secret marriage and it's against the Jedi rules; and by the Clones not wearing helmets in several scenes, we can see that they're all the same guy (and being Sci-Fi, we can safely assume they're a Clone Army...if not, we'll figure it out in the next episode when Luke says, "you fought in the Clone Wars").

And here are all the reasons the Star Wars Saga is made better by including 3 but dropping 1 & 2:

1.) The Saga starts off with a bang: Obi-Wan, a young Vader and R2-D2 fighting in a "Star War". It's much like the original spirit of the SW films and the Akira Kurosawa samurai films Lucas was inspired by: You drop the viewer into an exotic "lived-in" world, where not everything is explained to you.

2.) Everything about the backstory that is mentioned in 4-6 is backed up by 3. There aren't the many contradictions found in 1-2.

3.) Jar Jar is no longer a character. He's just an alien in the background. And even better: No gungan city and gungan army!

4.) We can again assume Obi-Wan discovered Anakin.

5.) There's nothing that conflicts with the idea that Obi-Wan took Anakin on an "idealistic crusade" and ticked off Owen Lars in the process.

6.) We can again assume Yoda is Obi-Wan's master.

7.) C-3PO is merely introduced as Padme's protocol droid. Anakin no longer built him; he was no longer hanging out with Uncle Owen; and most importantly, he was no longer making stupid puns and in the middle of a big CGI battle. Actually, one of the many things I like about Sith starting things off is how the droids are introduced; it's a great set-up for their adventure in A New Hope. R2 is established as a heroic droid who worked with the Jedi; he's a major player in the galactic conflict. C-3PO is set up as a butler/nurse-maid; he's on the side-lines; he's clueless to what's happening. When A New Hope is introduced, the whole conflict between R2 (the hero droid) and 3PO (the tenderfoot droid) will be even stronger and funnier.

8.) The first time we see Yoda use a light-sabre is now when he quickly beheads those two stormtroopers. That's just wicked cool. No inflated and contrived build-up like in Clones. You simply see this little green guy, two stormtroopers prepare to get him and bam! He gets them with his sabre in a flash. A cool scene is made even cooler by starting with Sith.

9.) Anakin was no longer conceived by midi-chlorienes.

10.) When Palpatine says "midi-chlorines", we'll just think it's some Star Wars science stuff. We won't know it's force sensitive bacteria.

11.) We'll assume Anakin wasn't a bratty punk who whined a lot. Instead we’ll see him as he’s introduced in Sith: A cunning and powerful warrior, great star pilot, friend of Obi-Wan Kenobi. He’s a heroic and romantic figure and his turn will have even more impact because we’ve never seen him in a bad light before (face it, many people did not like his character in Clones). By removing Clones from the equation, Anakin actually becomes far more likeable and his fall more tragic.

12.) We'll assume Anakin had a great, sweeping and passionate romance with Padme. Not an episode of Dawson’s Creek in space.

13.) We'll never have to deal with bad puns and/or fart jokes.

14.) Star Wars actually begins with a big battle in space, followed by some amazing Jedi action. What could be more fitting?

15.) Jedi, the weakest link in the original trilogy, is made much stronger by starting with Sith. The two work as perfect bookends. Sith pretty much starts the way Jedi ends. And there are all sorts of things reflected in those two films. It makes far more dramatic sense: The seduction and redemption of Anakin Skywalker is the story of Star Wars. You start and end there.

16.) By just starting with Sith, Luke and the gang really seem like a bunch of ragtag hippies when they're introduced. By not seeing characters like young Anakin and Jar Jar beforehand, our Rebel heroes (and later on the Ewoks) seem even more like underdogs in comparison to the Jedi. And the bulk of the story is still theirs. Sith is merely a cool prologue that fleshes out the backstory and adds more depth to some of the characters (Ben, Vader, Palpatine, Yoda and R2) and the overall story/conflict is deepened.

17.) It makes more sense in terms of structure. Having a saga that is split in two distinct halves doesn’t have the same cohesion as an eight hour epic with the first two hours working as a preamble that sets up the story. It’s like the film Excalibur, which was about 2 hours and had a half hour at the beginning devoted to Arthur’s father and how the sword got into the stone. It also would justify the visual difference in Sith (more CGI and modern looking) because it’s an isolated “flashback” section of the Saga that visually shows a more “civilized age”.

18.) And finally: No droid factory scene.

So essentially, we get all the things fans wanted from the Prequel(s) and none of the things many fans didn't. Sure, it's sad to see Darth Maul and sexy white-outfit Padme go...but it's for the greater good.

Let the debate begin…

And please refrain from writing 19.) You’re a (insert insult)."

This post has been edited by Smashman: 20 September 2005 - 06:57 PM

[diligent_d]

Interesting way of looking at things. Very well thought out. However, it still doesn't work for me for the simple reason that I couldn't stand ROTS.

[Darth Player]

If I had to say one thing was off about the PT it would be the ever changing tone/pace which wasn't a problem in the OT with a lot more ground to cover and many characters to introduce for the first time, which it does well.

The pacing problem is compounded with the damned digital effects. Massa George threw a lot behind making ILM a digital animation powerhouse, therefore the PT had to be the showcase for what could now be done to ensure his own firm's business in the future. For example, I think the Gungans were presented pretty nicely, but except for Boss Nass and Jar Jar, they take a turn at being annoying. The regular Gungan grunts when not interacting with Jar Jar look kinda interesting.

Same for Yoda/Palpatine. If they're the two big powerhouses of the respective spectrums of good and evil that they represent, its silly and illogical for them to fight hand to hand and with lightsabres, instead, they should be like two master chess champions setting events in motion for the overall good and bad to confront one another on a grander scale. That doesn't mean that Yoda can't run when the situation needs to, but if you set both up to be the ultimate power of good or evil, they look really stupid using a mini-lightsaber or falling bqackwards into a chair with their boots in the air like a real bitch the way Palpatine does. And if Palpatine spent so much time devising a plan to get Anakin to turn to Vader, I think he would have rigged his office with all sorts of little booby traps and weaponry here and there to fend off the Jedi he knew were coming to arrest him to improve his chances and buy time. The 360 degree turn from his desk into the air and in front of the three Jedi made no sense from a fighting point of view, it was just visual fluff designed to look pretty. Compare that supposed fighting showdown to the visual masterpiece in Kill Bill Vol. 1 in the Japanese restaurant. That one had a touch of humor, but the pace was terrific and there was a logical progression. Too bad the PT had NO equivalent of a fight like that, especially the finale of Obi Wan/Vader confronting one another.

The buzz droids in the beginning of the movie disapate the urgency we have after the opening crawl and display of the fighting above Coruscant. Its almost as if Lucas has two digital salt and pepper shakers on hand, one with serious tension and drama, and the other with Jerry Lewis/Jim Carey/Jim Henson's Muppet silliness and he shakes one, then the other, then both desparately together because he has a panic attack for some strange reason, maybe knowing he's in trouble with a very weak story and the way he chooses to say it.

And if Lucas had put in as much effort in making a logically based movie that had the drama and entertainment value we thought we were going to see as he put the effort into the mass media blitz, we wouldn't be having these discussions on as intense a level as we have been. ROTS solidified Lucas as the all media whore, and in this arena too he didn't even succeed in moving either the steak or the sizzle.

[jariten]

Rubbish (EDIT- im referring to what smashman posted a few places up). You could easily use all that crap to argue why most of 4 5 and 6 don’t belong in the saga either. What drives you is nostalgia. If something important has happened, I want to know exactly how and why. I’m referring to Palpatines rise to power here, gents.

4, 5 and 6 are not tightly plotted in themselves, and carry frequent instances of character, as well as story incontinuity. Just look at Hans, uh, “change” from kick ass space pirate to tedious bureaucrat, and 6’s total abandonment of the potentially awesome Vader wants to overthrow the Emperor storyline (something which Lucas partly recovered and revisited in 3).
Or go and ask any kid who loves the prequels what he/she thinks should happen to them. If you’re as old as I am (i.e over 20), Star Wars belongs to them, not us.

This post has been edited by jariten: 20 September 2005 - 10:35 PM

[Lord Aquaman]

Forgetting the prequel trilogy sounds like a very good idea. It may require experimental drugs though to help with the forgetting process.

[Smashman]

Watch 4 to 6.

Then take or leave 3.

[theredbaron]

Watch 4 to 6.

Then take or leave 3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I'd actually advise any newcomer to watch the OT (the Original OT, mind you, or *at least* the '97 SE), and THEN ROTS, if they so desired. That way, it won't spoil the 'Luke, I am your father' revelation in ESB, and it will later amplify the tragedy of ROTS (given that tragedy operates on the notion that the audience already knows the hero's fate, and watches him stumble helplessly towards it).