[Zatoichi]

Wow, church goers utilizing such an evil practice. I don't think the Devil could come up with something more vile.

[Jordan]

lambeul puts a smile on my face. the lamb rules!

[barend]

i love the way that atheists and christians argue with each other by pointing out plot holes in the other's beleif of how things came to be...

how did these two groups argue before the theory of evolution came about...

436BC
christian:God exists because the bible tells us so!
atheist:no he doesn't... we all er... uh... made ourselves!
christian:oh please.... come back when you have a descent theory!

[Zatoichi]

Zing

Towards the atheists of course. For my views, read through this and other topics at the fore-front of debate.

[Mnesymone]

Xenduck - can you, rather than saying that you don't think Origin of Species wasn't well written, rather than saying "I don't have time yet" start arguing?

First thing when arguing evolution: evolution was an established theory by Darwin's time - Origin of Species argued a method by which evolution ocurred - Lamarck proposed his theory on the generation of forms in the year Darwin was born, so evolution was actually a theory in the works in Darwin's time - simply wasn't mainstream, the mainstream theory still being Genesis.
Darwin did not understand the factors of inheritance - Mendel's genes were discovered in his time and not really noticed until the twentieth century.
These days, biologists do not treat Origin of Species as a gospel, rather as a pioneering work. Modern evolutionary theory (and before anyone goes 'Creation Science' on me, evolution is a fact - natural selection is a theory) is a refined form of the natural selection theory espoused in Origin of Species - and there are differences, but just because one biologist may believe in gradualism while the other believes in punctuated equilibrium doesn't mean they disagree on the fundamental point of evolution by natural selection.

Current evolutionary theory has that microevolution (characteristics within a species) and macroevolution (speciation) occur by the addition of characters by spontaneous mutation, and the removal of characters that do not contribute to survival, growth and reproductive success by selective pressure on said characters.

Dramatic changes that some people say refutes evolution occur by the major mutations - such as polyploidy or HOX gene mutations.

That'll cover all the bases for now.

[barend]

evolution is a fact - natural selection is a theory

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think it's the other way around.

and even then natural selection is tampered with too often, but as long as we're part of nature, it all still balances out for the purposes of diminished responsibility and terminology.

[xenduck]

i have been stalling, and i apologise for that; i simply havent had much free time lately. i have been studying evolution off and on for some years now. i have been exposed to numerous contradictions and variations within the theory itself that i am quite disenfranchised. two years ago, i decided to start again at the 'origin'. to see what darwin himself had to say about evolution. while i was reading the origin of the species, i was assailed by unanswered doubts. at the time, these doubts were enough to convince me darwin was, at the very least, overrated. so seeing the god topic and the monkey versus god topic, i decided to start this thread and vent my frustrations with darwin himself, seperate from modern theories.
but thats just not practicle. upon review the debate, i realized that, not being an anthropologist, i just dont have the verifiable information required to "debunk evolution with evolution".
therefore, let me say that i do not firmly believe in anything. no doubt everyone of us is missing some vital information about the origin of the univerese that could alter our opinions one way or another. so, i have to stall again since i am at work; but presently i will put forth the doubts ive been harboring for some time now, so that you all may help form an informed opinion.

[Mnesymone]

I've already formed my informed opinion - I wish that bloody CampusLife Christians on Campus mob would leave me alone is part of it.

And Barend - not the other way around. Evolution is the one you can observe in laboratories and the fossil record and is held by the vast mass of biologists to be fact, while natural selection is a rigorously tested theory of the mechanism by which evolution takes place.

[barend]

natural selection still exists in nature...

i suppose when man invented the leaf blower we proved that man made it to the top out of luck...

[civilian_number_two]

natural selection still exists in nature...

i suppose when man invented the leaf blower we proved that man made it to the top out of luck...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bah. Man is nowhere near the top. Man is out competing some other mammals, but that's the end of it. Man will be gone long before the microorganisms that survive to decompose him.

[barend]

please... we've wiped out more species than any other.

by the time our run is through, nothing will be able to live on this planet!

[Slade]

If you neglect humanity's ability to adapt, use of tools to overcome adversity, and only consider a guy in a loin cloth trying to fight a tiger with his bare hands while he's caught a disease he can't fight off, sure, we're not near the top.

[Dr Lecter]

I play russian roulette everyday, a man's sport, with a bullet called life!

From this, we can conclude that you're argument is crap and that I win. If you cannot understand this conclusion, you should probably get back on your medication.

PS. This is my tribute to Hannibal, wherever he may be.

[barend]

who?

[jariten]

You've forgotten already?

Professor Giraffenstein says:

"Fossils are the buried remains of the wicked men and animals that perished 4,000 years ago in the Flood!"