[Darth Player]

Yet another annoyance occurred to me today, and its one of the bigger plot holes in the PT/OT.

Luke gets the abbreviated Jedi training that he makes even shorter by going to Bespin in the ill fated attempt to make things right. He soesn't go back to Dagobah and when he does he doesn't get additional training of any kind. Sure he practised in the meantime and got new Jedi duds and a lightsaber in the meantime, and honed his skills rescuing Han and fighting Jabba, but its not like the trials other Jedi went through. When he confronts Vader and the Emperor he has a long drawn out ass dragging fight.

In comparison, the scene which is comparable in ROTS, when Anakin comes into Palpatines quarters and decides to turn toward the Dark Side, the action takes place within a blink of an eye. Neither Mace or the other Jedi last as long as Luke did, or had a chance to. Odd when its four to one and they go into a situation knowing who Palpatine finally is. True, they may not have known about his fighting abilities or the Sith lightening, but four to one odds when you hold the advantage is pretty good odds, especially when you're with Mace Windu, supposedly the #2 powerhouses of Jedi currently. But they fall aside like the two dimensional life size cardboard cutouts of characters found on the star wars shop.

True, the Vader/Luke duel was tinted with father/son overtones, but Luke has little in the arsenal of skills to go on, no real big bag of tricks and puts up a pretty good fight. Other Jedi intent on stamping out the Sith scourge don't fare as well to put it kindly.

And why didn't Yoda give any info on the Sith lightening or techniques to avoid it, not just the "do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor". Considering Yoda and Obi Wan didn't count on Vader to toss the Emperor down the shaft, its odd they angle him toward chucking the lightsaber at a critical time.

[SithAvenger]

You have a point there. Why Jedi train for 10 years without a sex life if a farmer can train for a week and be stronger than them? Bullcrap.

[Darth Player]

I guess the secret is having a French Kissing sister, one you lusted after until you had "the talk on the log". It must the be A-Bomb in the SW universe.

[KurganX]

Actually Obi-Wan wanted Luke to kill Vader. Yoda wanted Luke to "conquer" them.

Luke's "there is still good in him" was complete improvisation on his part.

And yes, Luke was willing to sacrifice himself ("you be forced to kill me") to win his dad back, but he wasn't willing to sacrifice Leia ("never!").

Why is Luke so powerful? Are the Sith just that decrepit and overconfident after 20 years of sitting around in chairs (okay Vader was pretty active fighting the Rebellion) and walking down hallways?

Yes you'd think the lightning thing would have been a major training point. Then again these other Jedi who never encountered it before were able to counter it pretty easily (Luke just sucked in that one area?) or they didn't count on Luke throwing his blade away.. (in the novel he pushes away the lightning for a brief moment before being overwhelmed)

The real reason they didn't show Luke being trained to block lightning was non-suspension of disbelief...

1) Lucas probably hadn't thought of Sith Lightning when he was making ESB (and obviously long before he'd made AOTC & ROTS).

2) In ROTJ he wanted the "powers of the Emperor" to be a surprise so he didn't reveal them until that point.

[Magee]

You guys speak so confidently about the "Jedi Trials." Where does your knowledge of these trials come from.

I had always felt that becoming a Jedi was not about physical training but about mental training. It wasnt that Luke did not have the skill to defeat Vader, but he did not have the mental fortitude in ESB. I thought this was pretty clear in ROTJ when Yoda says that Luke has to face Vader before he is a Jedi. Its not because Vader is going to train him, but because Luke has to show the mental fortitude to fight his father before he can consider himself a Jedi.

So I think your saying that Luke did not recieve any further "training" in the NFL training camp sense of the word is a plot hole is incorrect.

[Despondent]

True. A line I've reconsidered lately was "your weapons... need you them not will you"

sorry to kill the mood.

Anyway, when that Oh-such-moment of Balance occurred, Luke WAS unarmed.
I'll take the high ground and suggest it was merely coincidental.