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The Chosen One what's so great about anakin?

#16 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 04:24 AM

Anakin was a dick. If I was a Jedi, I would quit the order if I knew that a whining brat was the chosen one to bring balance to the Force (whatever that means).

Even Kit Fisto could be a better ''Chosen One'' than Anakin.
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#17 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 08:29 AM

QUOTE (dougte @ Jul 30 2005, 01:17 AM)
Okay, this line is retarded.  I'm sorry, but it is.  So "natural psychopaths" somehow gravitate towards business and politics? What?  So which professions have the most "normal" people, according to your anecdotal evidence? Give me a break...

Those who don't become criminals gravitate towards professions in which ruthlessness and a lack of morals can be an asset, which is exactly what you'd expect. That doesn't mean that all or most businessmen or politicians are psychopaths, and I never said anything of the sort, so get off your high horse. And it's not just 'anecdotal' evidence; I've actually done some reading on the subject, believe it or not, and there are all sorts of studies showing this to be the case. Try reading A Mind To Crime by Anne Moir and David Jessel if you want to know more about it.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

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Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#18 User is offline   dougte Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 11:46 AM

QUOTE (Helena @ Jul 30 2005, 08:29 AM)
Those who don't become criminals gravitate towards professions in which ruthlessness and a lack of morals can be an asset, which is exactly what you'd expect. That doesn't mean that all or most businessmen or politicians are psychopaths, and I never said anything of the sort, so get off your high horse. And it's not just 'anecdotal' evidence; I've actually done some reading on the subject, believe it or not, and there are all sorts of studies showing this to be the case. Try reading A Mind To Crime by Anne Moir and David Jessel if you want to know more about it.


A study that finds lots of criminals in "business"--in a market based economy--doesn't really wow me. Capitalism IS ruthless. The entire system is ruthless. Duh. "Business" is a pretty broad term. Didn't Calivin Cooliage say "the business of America is business"?

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic: Anakin sucks. So does George Lucas's PT. Moving on...
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#19 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 01:18 PM

...how he accomplished in one night what a posse of people couldnt do in a month (finding his mom)...

This says more about Lucas's sloppy and lazy screenwriting than about little Annie's Chosen One powers.

And since when does the Force make you a great mechanic? Building the pod race happened entirely off screen anyway and is laughably unbelievable in any case. By your logic, if Lucas showed us Annie proudly pointing to a skyscraper and saying, "I designed and built that myself," it'd be proof not of Lucas's failure as a writer but proof of Annie's super duper Force powers.

As for Annie's becoming second in command of the Empire - well, Lucas has to show us how credibly this happened. Instead he shows us a whiny, emo adolescent so weak-minded that after one conversation with Palpatine he goes out to slaughter children. Very impressive. Next on Annie's powerful, valiant deeds for the Dark Side: burning down a hospital.
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#20 User is offline   xenduck Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 01:37 PM

what im getting at is that anakin was the chosen, but thats not to say obi-wan, mace, yoda, and palpatine werent also unique, or gifted. to me, that seems to be the crux of the problem, you are assuming the ones anakin interacts with are the norm; when acctually, they are the elite and all the jedi who got slaughtered by vader or the clones were the norm. THEY GOT SLAUGHTERED! that is to say, they were no match for anakin's abilities. many master jedi were wasted by clones, yet obi and yoda were not, therefore, yoda and obi are also exceptional. hence, they are a match for the YOUNG vader.

and by the way, anakin and palpatine were friends for at least ten years. im willing to bet they had more than one conversation.
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#21 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 03:32 PM

...anakin and palpatine were friends for at least ten years...

Again, show, don't tell. The only evidence for this great "friendship" in Episode II is a scene where Annie and Palpy have two or three lines. Something about Annie praising "your guidance". Guidance in what, Lucas forgot to show *or* tell.
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#22 User is offline   xenduck Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 03:51 PM

ill grant you that, there is plenty more telling than showing, throughout. and lucas does seem to rely on a significant amount of inference. but, as devil's advocate, there is a whole lot O story that needs a'telln and only wee bit O time ta tell it in. the movie would have really flopped if it spent hours developing visually what was just 'told' to the audeince instead of 'cutting to the chase'.
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#23 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 04:39 AM

QUOTE (dougte @ Jul 30 2005, 05:46 PM)
A study that finds lots of criminals in "business"--in a market based economy--doesn't really wow me. Capitalism IS ruthless.  The entire system is ruthless.  Duh.

Which is, um... exactly the point I was trying to make. Duh.

QUOTE
Now back to our regularly scheduled topic:  Anakin sucks.  So does George Lucas's PT.

Agreed.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#24 User is offline   Dorothy Icon

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 10:01 AM

Okay, maybe this is just a little nitpick, but it really bugs me. Was Anakin abnormal for a Jedi? Yoda stresses time and again the importance of a Jedi NOT caring for those around him, and NOT forming attachments, yet here is little Anakin forming all of these friendships and even getting married, and taking his marital problems to Yoda. The question that I have is, has anyone else in the Jedi order EVER had a problem with attachments? Yoda is so adament about Jedi relations, and yet he can't see that Anakin is faultering right in front of his face... If this is a common problem with Jedi, why not express that and make Anakin realize that he is not alone in his struggles. If this is an uncommon problem, that is, if it comes easily for most Jedi then why make the all the rules about it, and why not kick Anakin out because OBVIOUSLY this is his weak point. It's not like they didn't know he was emotionally unstable.

Edit: Sorry if this doesn't make any sense.... It's still really early where I am. sleeping.gif

This post has been edited by Dorothy: 01 August 2005 - 10:03 AM

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#25 User is offline   julie123 Icon

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE (xenduck @ Jul 30 2005, 06:37 PM)
what im getting at is that anakin was the chosen, but thats not to say obi-wan, mace, yoda, and palpatine werent also unique, or gifted. to me, that seems to be the crux of the problem, you are assuming the ones anakin interacts with are the norm; when acctually, they are the elite and all the jedi who got slaughtered by vader or the clones were the norm. THEY GOT SLAUGHTERED! that is to say, they were no match for anakin's abilities. many master jedi were wasted by clones, yet obi and yoda were not, therefore, yoda and obi are also exceptional. hence, they are a match for the YOUNG vader.



In ATOC the Jedi Order numbered 10,000 out of the billions of humans/creatures/aliens etc that inhabited the galazy. This would appear to me to make ALL of the Jedi exceptional not the norm as you state.

Anakin killed children - this is supposed to be some kind of an example of how much of a cut above Anakin was to the norm? Man, he really was the Chosen One!!
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#26 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:30 AM

QUOTE (julie123 @ Aug 1 2005, 11:22 AM)
Anakin killed children - this is supposed to be some kind of an example of how much of a cut above Anakin was to the norm?  Man, he really was the Chosen One!!

Now we can add another scene to the Bail "We'll take her" scene. the Judicial Jedi council has ruled that the remains of Anikan are Unfit to raise children. Thank the maker.
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#27 User is offline   julie123 Icon

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE (ernesttomlinson @ Jul 29 2005, 04:18 PM)
It's the business of being "Chosen" that troubles me.  Chosen by whom?  There's no deity in the Star Wars universe but the terms "the will of the Force" and "the living force" imply a vague pantheism.  Hence the Force apparently somehow compelled Palpatine or Plagueis or whoever to bring about Annie's conception.  It doesn't exactly make sense...

Chosen for what purpose?  The "bringing balance to the Force" nonsense is never explained.  And if the Force is essentially autonomous - the Jedi do not create it, they just channel it - how could it get out of balance by the action of mere mortals?




This was an excellent post, well done.

My problem with the Chosen One story line is that here once again Lucas refuses to allow Anakin to accept any kind of responsibility for his actions – the force made him do it. The incidental manner in which Vader appears to fulfil the prophecy pisses me off even more.

The force has been used to excuse many of Lucas’s mistakes, make those continuity errors in the Star Wars trilogy, but nowhere has it been used more cynically than in the creation of a Chosen One. Think about it, Lucas must have sat down and thought, how can I make Anakin not responsible for the deaths of billions of those aliens/creatures/people etc and the destruction of whole planets? Got it, make him a Chosen One - worked in the Matrix, will work here. However, call me crazy but I think that bringing the force back into balance for 10,000 or 2 force users, depending on your point of view, is a price too far to make, for those billions of non-force users. This should never be condoned. If I'd have been one of the non-force users at the end of ROTJ such as Lando or Han, I'd have kicked the force in the nuts.
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#28 User is offline   Magee Icon

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 03:57 PM

The two questions are:

1. What was special about Anakin's powers that made him attractive to Palpatine?

2. Why did Palpatine need Anakin to complete his seizure of power?

Everybody can keep their prophesies and other stolen plot lines. All of that crap is just used by gushers to confuse the fact that Lucas does a piss poor job of answering either of these questions. Which is unfortunate because Anakin's fall can only be understood by answering these questions, and since the prequels are the story of Anakin's fall, failure to answer these questions makes the entire plot unbelievable and uninteresting.
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#29 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 12:19 AM

1) Palpatine managed to come across the one human woman on Tattoine (other than the "it's stormy, Annie" lady), make the most of it, and pay Watto her off to keep her mouth shut.

2) To get back at the Sandpeople, of course.
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#30 User is offline   xenduck Icon

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE (julie123 @ Aug 1 2005, 11:22 AM)
In ATOC the Jedi Order numbered 10,000 out of the billions of humans/creatures/aliens etc that inhabited the galazy. This would appear to me to make ALL of the Jedi exceptional not the norm as you state. 


the jedi(sith) are the elite of the galaxy; yoda, obi, mace, palps, and annie are the elite of the jedi(sith).
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