[Travis Mays]

So, I posted this on myspace a few weeks ago and someone sent me this webpage, I can't believe I'd never heard of it! So anyway, this has all probably all been covered here, I just covered the major points. If I copied anything it wasn't intentional. I omitted the last paragraph as it might offend some people here, but it's all on my myspace page (link at bottom) if anyone wants to read it.

What I learned from Revenge of the Sith


Yoda is a coward and a traitor and the Rebel Alliance should have him put to death. The only one left capable of taking on the Emperor decides to quit after one fight. Why? Even a lesser Jedi, Mace Windu, was capable of pinning down Palpatine, and Yoda is surely more than capable of doing the same and more, as we saw. Ever heard the phrase “Live to fight another day?” Obviously Yoda hasn’t. He decides it’s better to leave the entire civilized galaxy in the hands of a lunatic so that he can go retire on a swamp infested planet rather than crawl back into the Senate and finish what he started. Yoda quits when he’s most needed, I hold him personally responsible for the rise of the Empire and the deaths of thousands of innocent Jedi. Wait to set the standard there little guy.



Lucas has no idea how to title a movie. “Revenge of the Sith.” Revenge against what? The Sith provoked a fight in a bid to rise to power. There’s no revenge in there, they started it! Shouldn’t it be “Rise of the Sith?” Cuz that’s what they did. I don’t remember the Sith being in power for 1000 years before being overthrown by the Jedi, because that’s the only way it would be revenge. Yes, it came from the original title of “Return of the Jedi,” which was “Revenge of the Jedi,” but revenge just doesn’t apply to this movie. And while we’re talking about “Return of the Jedi,” I ask you this: At what point did the Jedi return in that movie? They’re all fuckin dead! Was there a scene I missed where they rose from the grave and helped conquer Empire? As far as I saw, there was only one Jedi who didn’t return from anywhere except the last 2 movies, and he got some homself some revenge. Darth Vader took his hand; he took Darth Vader's hand. An eye for and eye, that’s revenge. Constructing an entire army over 10 years and taking over the universe without anyone being the wiser, well… that’s just smart. That Emperor deserves everything he worked for.



Padme never died. That’s right, Luke and Leia’s mother is still alive! I’m not a medical professional, but I don’t need to look back through history to know how many people have died because they’ve physically lost the will to live. I’ll tell you how many: Zero. Zip. None. Zilch. It doesn’t happen. Especially not in an ultra-advanced civilization where they can take a man who’s burned beyond recognition and practically dead and turn him into a baritone-voiced cyborg. Would it have been THAT hard to have had Annakin ACTUALLY kill her and have Obi-Wan recover the babies? Oh I’m sorry, that’s not family friendly. Nevermind slicing off limbs, setting people on fire, and killing hundreds of children. Choking someone to death... with the FORCE!!!.... is over the line.



Darth Vader and Frankenstein are one and the same. Personally, I find it to be a testament to Lucas' character that he trumped over 2 hours of Jar Jar Binks with a scene that lasts a mere 3 minutes. The only thing I can really think of that might have lead to this new low in film history is that maybe Lucas threatened James Earl Jones with withholding his paycheck unless he read those godawful lines. At which point Jones yelled out "Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!"


More @ http://www.myspace.com/7291047

[Paladin]

I really don't know what everyone is so confused about with the 'sith seeking revenge' thing. I thought it was very obvious.

The Sith probably had a bid for power earlier on and the Jedi stepped up and stopped them. This vexed the Sith and forced them into hiding and they apparently (and silently) vowed revenge when the time was right. Why is everyone so confused over this?

[J m HofMarN]

I learned that if a heavy walkway falls on you all it takes is a few minutes stuck on Anakin's back and you'll be myraculously healed.

I also learned that if you want someone to kill a guy and want to manipulate him all you have to say is "Kill him." Followed by "Do it." and the person will kill the guy.

I also learned that Anakin always feels remorse the second after he murders people, but oddly enough he dosnt seem to gain any wisdom from:

killing the sand people and then being bitched out by Padme
killing Dooku and then saying he shouldnt have done that
killing Mace and then whining out "what have I done?"
etc etc.
And of course the one time when he actually has a chance to kill someone he decides to turn him into the council, which dosnt exactly fit with what we know about him. If he'd stayed to character he'd have hacked Palps to bits and then said something to the effect of "I've been a very naughty boy."

[Travis Mays]

I really don't know what everyone is so confused about with the 'sith seeking revenge' thing. I thought it was very obvious.

The Sith probably had a bid for power earlier on and the Jedi stepped up and stopped them. This vexed the Sith and forced them into hiding and they apparently (and silently) vowed revenge when the time was right. Why is everyone so confused over this?

Probably doesn't count. I mean, probably Padme rose from the grave to take care of Leia as a young girl in order to tie together ep VI when Luke says "Do you remember your mother, your REAL mother?" But... I'm not gonna take that for granted. I don't KNOW it happened. But it PROBABLY did since Padme had no real reason for dying in the first place.

[Gerhard]

but I don’t need to look back through history to know how many people have died because they’ve physically lost the will to live. I’ll tell you how many: Zero. Zip. None

Well, I think it can happen, but it's a process that could take months or years, depending on what you eat (or don't eat) and the genaral state of the organism. Of course nobody who loses the will to live will do it in 5 minutes without external help. One of many insults Lucas gave us in is ILM Commercial aka Revenge of the Sith

[Travis Mays]

Well, I think it can happen, but it's a process that could take months or years, depending on what you eat (or don't eat) and the genaral state of the organism.

No, it can't happen. This is why we have autoposies, nobody ever dies just because. You'll never hear a Doctor tell someone: "Yes she was perfectly healthy and fit, but her brain told her heart to stop, and so the heart did." Living is an involuntary reflex.

Here's a science experiment for ya. Close your eyes and think to yourself over and over "I don't want to live." Repost and let me know how that works out.

[jariten]

Do you have some hard evidence of someone (say) throwing lightning out of their hands, or travelling at the speed of light, or weilding a blade made out of ???, or manipulating peoples minds with magic, or is it that (as ive read so many times before) one impossible situation is valid but another isn't?

This post has been edited by jariten: 10 December 2005 - 07:21 PM

[Travis Mays]

Do you have some hard evidence of someone (say) throwing lightning out of their hands, or travelling at the speed of light, or weilding a blade made out of ???, or manipulating peoples minds with magic, or is it that (as ive read so many times before) one impossible situation is valid but another isn't?

I'm not sure, I've never met anyone skilled in the force or anyone knowledgable of hyperspace. I have however met living breathing human beings, and talked with bona fide doctors, and I can assure you I know enough in that area to tell you 100% positively you can't die from a loss of willpower. I wish you could, it would probably solve a lot problems in the world.

[Gerhard]

No, it can't happen. This is why we have autoposies, nobody ever dies just because. You'll never hear a Doctor tell someone: "Yes she was perfectly healthy and fit, but her brain told her heart to stop, and so the heart did." Living is an involuntary reflex.

Here's a science experiment for ya. Close your eyes and think to yourself over and over "I don't want to live." Repost and let me know how that works out.

It's known people dye from depression for example, an old person losing his husband/wife could die of sadness (not like in this movie, it's a rather long process).

Maybe the cause is not depression, or losing the will to live, but being depressed can cause diseases, can cause the organism to not function properly and result in death, if you are weak you can easily catch diseases.

I see your point, a sad person does not die from being sad, but it could lead to other problems.

Do you have some hard evidence of someone (say) throwing lightning out of their hands, or travelling at the speed of light, or weilding a blade made out of ???, or manipulating peoples minds with magic, or is it that (as ive read so many times before) one impossible situation is valid but another isn't?

Since all Skywalker family, Obi-Wan, Han Solo, etc are considered Humans, we are led to belive they will function and act like us, Humans

Or was the force that killed Padme?

[jariten]

youre missing my point. Were operating in a fantasy world which has multiple examples of 'impossible' things happening (that was what the OP was complaining about, the impossibility of that happening) which dont seem to bother you. if they did, i.e if you followed your own thoughts through to their logical conclusion, you'd hate all the Star Wars films.

However, you dont. Could you, or anyone down with this "nothing ever happened like this in REAL LIFE!" thing, explain why?

[Travis Mays]

Gerhard, I understand you're point. But even old people who've lost spouses don't die because of that. They die because their bodies are already in a weakened state and probably get even weaker because they suddenly don't feel as upetty, they don't move around, they shut down. That's still natural causes of old age, it would never happen to a healthy person. No 40 year old that loses a spouse is gonna die from sadness. So to me it doesn't really count as losing the will to live. Or should I say "I my opinion you're wrong, Obi Wan!"

Jariten, talk about missing points. See, here's the thing. There's no such thing as a lightsaber, fine, Lucas can make up whatever he wants about them no matter how ridiculous. There's no such thing as hyperspace, fine, Lucas can make up whatever he wants about it no matter how ridiculous. However, there IS such a thing as a human being. Lucas did not make that up, otherwise meesa probably be talkin lika deesa. If Padme was part of some alien race that keels over and dies when they feel like it, I might be more willing to accept. However, she's human, and I've never seen a gravestone that says "Here lies Jariten, Died because he willed it to be so."

[jariten]

But Padme isnt a real human being, this is what i'm saying. Shes a fantasy character living in a fantasy world and is as dictated by that fantasy world as much as lightspeed (impossible) and sound in space (impossible) is. You cant suspend your disbelief for certain elements of this fantasy world (Obi Wan, a HUMAN, using magic for instance) and not for others. Its like reading the Princess and the Pea when you were a kid and saying "hey, theres no way that the human body is sensitive enough to feel one little pea through all those matresses! I dont care if this is a fairy tale!" and throwing the book into the fire.

I didnt like the way Lucas treated Padmes death, but theres no doubt that it 'fits in' with the universe.

[J m HofMarN]

Hey everybody! Fiction dosnt require believability anymore! I'm going to write a version of Romeo and Juliet where Romeo dies of a broken heart and then Juliet dies of a broken heart when she wakes up.

You're right on the fact that everything in fiction dosnt have to be rooted in fact, but you're crazy if you think it dosnt have to be believable.

For example, maybe Padme's race could like nothing better than to be randomly sexually molested by strangers. This peculiarity could be explained as them being aliens, but would it be believable???

The basic thing of it is that you have to BELIEVE that a society, as it is portrayed, could operate under the peculiarities the writer places on the character. Naboo would have been a FUCKING WASTELAND OF CORPSES if we take this idea into effect. Not ONE person would have lived through their teens, not to mention a bad night at work. Maternal instincts and other responsibilities apparently don't exist, Padme didnt even say a damned word about the two kids she crapped out before she died cuz she missed her stupid boyfriend. Not to mention that it even conflicts with the Jedi mind trick:

-Waves hand at storm trooper- "You want to die."

"I... want to... die..." -Keels over-

[jariten]

I suppose I have nothing further to add except that Star Wars is a fantasy/fairy tale (and as such I dont know why you're bringing Shakespeare up as a comparable work of fiction) in which the following elements are included:
wizards in space, magic, young boys fulfilling their destinies, evil magicians, rogue heroes, sword fighting, daring do swashbuckling, princesses and queens in distress, a opening line of "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..."...

Those are elements from any fantasy fiction from your childhood. Add someone dying of a broken heart in there and it fits in seamlessly. Its fantasy, its a fairy tale in space. you all would've said so before, why not now? why the sudden need to want to ground Star Wars in an earth based reality where it doesnt exist, and where it cant exist?

[J m HofMarN]

In Romeo and Juliette Mercutio's CURSE plays the pivotal role in the story. Shaekspeare frequently used fantastic storylines including Gods and such, for his plays, but he never did anything that was completely unrealistic and insane.

and if you want to use fantasy, in Tolkienic lore Arwen DOES indeed die of a broken heart after Aragorn's death, but she does so after several decades I believe.

And once again I'm not demanding that it be realistic, I'm just demanding that it be believable. For instance, a giant monster terrorising the capital of Naboo the heroes must slay is believable but not realistic.

However a giant monster that has been terrorising Naboo for ten years would not be believable unless the palace scenes were changed to include ruin and heavy guards.