Chefelf.com Night Life: Thunderous Applause and Death of Democracy - Chefelf.com Night Life

Jump to content

Star Wars Fan Convention

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2

Thunderous Applause and Death of Democracy Bullets over Naboo

#1 User is offline   julie123 Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 139
  • Joined: 25-May 05
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 20 July 2005 - 11:56 AM

What kind of democracy is it that is dying here? Take Naboo for instance, when Anakin tells Padme about the dream he keeps having about her dying in childbirth, she says to him “Anakin, this baby will change our lives. I doubt the Queen will continue to allow me to serve in the Senate”. What? Excuse me? Exactly what kind of democratic system is it that is operating in Naboo? The people elect a queen, but allow said queen to choose who represents/serves them in the Galactic Senate!! Suddenly, Padme’s line in ATOC about how she should not have come back does not sound so stupid anymore. Padme can please herself if she represents her planet at the Senate (or not) because it is the Queen who will decide if this is acceptable and not the citizens of Naboo. Nepotism is a word that they do not appear to have heard of in this planet. This kind of ‘democracy’ sounds a bit like a one party state or one-person state if you will AND NOT, like the USA system of government.

How many of the other planets in the galaxy far, far away, have a similar kind of ‘democratic’ government to that of Naboo? Perhaps Padme should consider herself lucky that she is hearing thunderous applause and not hails of rocket fire and bullets, when ‘liberty’ is dying.

This film fails because the democratic systems that are being employed to make metaphorical attacks on the policies of George Bush, are themselves so utterly undemocratic, they render any kind of insight into the current USA political situation, superfluous.
0

#2 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 20 July 2005 - 03:27 PM

Good point. Lucas screwed things up again once more!

Personally, I really don't care anymore for Star Wars and the prequels. I can't wait till Episode III comes out on video so I can get my movie-marathon over with and close this sorry chapter in my life.

Incidentally, the same time Episode III came out is the same time I finished college. That makes it two chapters in my life, the Star Wars fiasco, and the end to my time as a full-time student, are more or less over. I'm looking for a job now and I think I'm within reach of one right now. I just hope to forget all the tradgic events that happened to me as a child and as an adolesant and think of the future. Plus, I just want to forget about Star Wars in its entirity and think of it as some formerly good Sci-Fi movie series gone bad and get over it... actually, I already have a long time ago, but it won't really be complete until I get Episode III on video!
0

#3 User is offline   dougte Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 68
  • Joined: 18-June 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 22 July 2005 - 10:59 AM

Well, julie123, I may have argued with you in the past, but I must say that you've made a pretty good point. Kudos.
0

#4 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 371
  • Joined: 12-July 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 22 July 2005 - 11:20 AM

QUOTE (dougte @ Jul 22 2005, 10:59 AM)
Well, julie123, I may have argued with you in the past, but I must say that you've made a pretty good point.  Kudos.


I thought we were done with overanalyzing the politics of George Lucas' galaxy. But heres one more point: You cant tell that of all the planets in the galaxy not one thought that transfering power to Palpatine was a bad idea.
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
0

#5 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 22 July 2005 - 11:33 AM

That was the stupidest thing of all. The whole idea of 100% of the senate agreeing and no one speaking out against it is bad enough, but Padme is the only one who had a qualm against it but chose to sulk and remain quiet rather than speak out.

But then again, maybe she knew that she would never have suceeded no matter what she said or tried to do.
0

#6 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 335
  • Joined: 11-May 05
  • Country:Poland

Posted 24 July 2005 - 07:09 AM

Well, it seems like Republic is a cross between US and UN, it is a loose federation of systems keeping their own goverments. But Queen on Naboo is elected, so there are democratic elements. And don't tell me this is stupid, Polish King was elected for hundreds of years.

But on a galactic scale it is democratic, we have a Senate.

And there was opposition to Palpatine, see the novel and movie script.

It seems that ignorance still rules on this board.
0

#7 User is offline   dougte Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 68
  • Joined: 18-June 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 24 July 2005 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Jul 22 2005, 11:33 AM)
But then again, maybe she knew that she would never have suceeded no matter what she said or tried to do.



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-- Edmund Burke
0

#8 User is offline   dougte Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 68
  • Joined: 18-June 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 24 July 2005 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE (Lord Melkor @ Jul 24 2005, 07:09 AM)
And there was opposition to Palpatine, see the novel and movie script.

It seems that ignorance still rules on this board.



That's like people on these boards saying, "you needed to see the cartoon..."

Bottom line: if it was in the books and script Lucas should have done a better job showing it in the finished movie.
0

#9 User is offline   jerfus17 Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: 12-July 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:VA
  • Country:United States

Posted 24 July 2005 - 08:22 PM

A bit off the subject, but just a thought I had to in ....

"I only deal in ABSOLUTES" - President George W. Bush retorting to John Kerry in the 2004 election debates.

"Only the Sith deal in ABSOLUTES" - Obi-Wan Kenobi speaking to Anakin in ROTS, and George Lucas trying to comment that George Bush is evil.

BUT .... isn't "ONLY the Sith deal in ABSOLUTES" an ABSOLUTE statement?

So since Obi-Wan is making ABSOLUTE statements, and ONLY the Sith deal in ABSOLUTES, doesn't that make Obi-wan and evil Sith as well Mr. Lucas? I think George Lucas should keep his politics to himself and a Star Wars movie should be no place for political propaganda, whether you agree with him or not. :angry:
- helping to bring down the Lucas empire ... one post at a time.
0

#10 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

  • Miracle Ghost
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5,442
  • Joined: 26-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:I like my my little pony characters like I like my suspected criminals. Mirandized.
  • Country:United States

Posted 24 July 2005 - 08:32 PM

Actually, art has been used as a mefium for political statements for hundreds of years. And if you consider a movie art, then it is perfectly fair to make statements in movies. But I always thought that "Only Sith deal in absolutes" is a bit hypocritical.

This post has been edited by Otal Nimrodi: 24 July 2005 - 08:32 PM

Want a Tarot reading?

PM me, we'll talk.
0

#11 User is offline   Despondent Icon

  • Think for yourself
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,684
  • Joined: 31-October 03
  • Location:a long time ago
  • Interests:Laughter. Louis pups. Percussion. What binds us. Bicycling, Tennis.
  • Country:United States

Posted 24 July 2005 - 09:42 PM

Maybe the OT was greater in comparison then, because it's timeless. Aside from the out of date readout screens in the ships (please don't change them, I'm fine with that. Leave it alone) there's nothing screaming: "this is a reaction to what is going on in the year 1975, '76 and '77."

Not that the PT does either. Except the sense memory kicks in: yeah, that's where the graphics changed and Every facet seemed to go downhill in contrast to the OT.

I'm not suggesting it's a lame Bush reference. But I'm watching the parade from your side of the street. smile.gif
0

#12 User is offline   DarthTherion Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 141
  • Joined: 05-May 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 July 2005 - 03:31 AM

My, my. I thought "This is how liberty dies -- to thunderous applause" was the best line of ROTS. It's very powerful in context.

If you haven't noticed, the decline of the Republic is well underway when the PT begins. That's why there are systems like Tatooine that are totally beneath the notice of the Senate, systems where local crime bosses have total power and practices like slavery are allowed to continue. (This is, incidentally, how Palpatine is able to manipulate the Senate's sympathy for his apparently disenfranchised planet; it's also why the Separatist movement is so popular)

Perhaps Naboo's government is deeply flawed as well?

"This is how liberty dies" is the culmination of a process that has been developing for three movies (plus several decades/centuries prior). The surprise is that Palpatine's take-over is accomplished with the acquiescence of most of the galaxy. In the name of security, tyranny comes to power, once again demonstrating that "good" intentions consistently lead to disaster in the PT.

In our world, bad things really do happen in the name of good, and the majority of people often support them.

[It would have been nice to see the beginning of the rebellion, but I can certainly live without seeing a young Mon Mothma, can't you? Besides, the story of the PT is so focused on a handful of characters that incorporating the small resistence to Palpatine would probably not have worked]
0

#13 User is offline   julie123 Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 139
  • Joined: 25-May 05
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 25 July 2005 - 05:28 AM

QUOTE
And there was opposition to Palpatine, see the novel and movie script.

It seems that ignorance still rules on this board.


God forbid that the FILM should show there is opposition to Palpatine.

The ignorance seems to be yours mi lord.
0

#14 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 335
  • Joined: 11-May 05
  • Country:Poland

Posted 25 July 2005 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (julie123 @ Jul 25 2005, 11:28 AM)
God forbid that the FILM should show there is opposition to Palpatine.

The ignorance seems to be yours mi lord.



True, this movie should be 3 hours and have more politics, I agree. But you all hate politics in PT, don't you?

Oh, and we see two Senators that are against Palpatine-Organa and Amidala. We don't see any Senators with other beliefs. Therefore opposition is implied.

Oh, and My Lord should be with capital letters.

This post has been edited by Lord Melkor: 25 July 2005 - 02:26 PM

0

#15 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:42 AM

QUOTE
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-- Edmund Burke


Quite right, I heard that quote a million times over and for some reason it slipped my mind over there. But quite frankly, with Palpatine Emperor, and slowly starting to remove what was left of the senate, I guess that whatever opposition was also being muted.

But I guess that it was not... seeing that some Admirals in ANH were arguing over the fact that the senate were supporting the rebellion (but how?) until it was dissolved. I guess maybe there was some life in the senate after all!
0

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2


Fast Reply

  • Decrease editor size
  • Increase editor size