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Humor, not gags Criticism of PT

#1 User is offline   Mikecel Icon

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 03:45 PM

I just happened to catch Empire of Dreams on A&E. Irvin Kershner was saying how he felt ESB needed "humor, not gags". He succeeded. If Lucas had only remembered these words of wisdom there would have been no two headed announcer, poodoo, elan sleazebaggano or silly banter about buying a speeder between Obi Wan and Anakin in the PT. What might have been...
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#2 User is offline   Giff Icon

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:19 AM

...or Jar Jar biggrin.gif

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#3 User is offline   Karig Icon

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Post icon  Posted 14 July 2005 - 12:43 PM

Excellent point. "Gags, not humor" is certainly one very large reason why the PT (certainly both TPM and AOTC) is so cringe-inducing. (E.T.'s on the Galactic Senate, anyone? And we can't forget that epically awful line "I don't care what universe you're from -- that's GOTTA hurt!" Ewwwww...)

This post has been edited by Karig: 14 July 2005 - 12:44 PM

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#4 User is offline   Revan-47 Icon

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 02:53 PM

I dont really mind the E.T's cuz i never really noticed it until someone told me about it.
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#5 User is offline   xenduck Icon

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Posted 16 July 2005 - 03:10 PM

if ever there was a gusher, im it; but i truly, deeply, despise all of C3PO's gags' on geonossis.
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#6 User is offline   Karig Icon

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Post icon  Posted 19 July 2005 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE (xenduck @ Jul 16 2005, 03:10 PM)
if ever there was a gusher, im it; but i truly, deeply, despise all of C3PO's gags' on geonossis.

Ohhhh...I definitely hear you there...Bad puns too...

"This is such a drag!"
"I'm quite beside myself."
"DIE, JEDI DOGS! Oh--what did I say?"

I'm surprised GL didn't have C3PO say "I seem to be getting carried away." AAAAAHHHH! MAKE IT STOP!!! yell.gif

Another site has a smilie bashing its head against a brick wall over and over. I want to use it here so bad...
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#7 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 10:22 PM

QUOTE (Mikecel @ Jul 13 2005, 01:45 PM)
I just happened to catch Empire of Dreams on A&E. Irvin Kershner was saying how he felt ESB needed "humor, not gags". He succeeded. If Lucas had only remembered these words of wisdom there would have been no two headed announcer, poodoo, elan sleazebaggano or silly banter about buying a speeder between Obi Wan and Anakin in the PT. What might have been...


Question is - where does humor end and gags begin?

I assume that gags begin with Jar Jar (the absolute worst gag in the long, sad history of bad gags).
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I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#8 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 12:56 PM

The Crumb muppet made me gag. And it's been a slippery slope.
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#9 User is offline   SouthernRonin Icon

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 10:22 AM

I would define humor as a nonserious outlook on a realistic situation (within the context of the world). Its primary purpose is to reveal character, gettting a laugh is secondary.

A gag's sole purpose is to get a laugh, usually diverging from the main flow of the story to do so. In a comedy, that's fine, because the point is to make people laugh, and story is second. In a story like Star Wars, action and story are most important, if the funny moment doesn't help the story, it's a gag (and it usually isn't funny).

So when Yoda walks in and nonchalantly slams the Royal Guard, that's humor: it's revealing his character as a powerful Jedi, and that sets up the fight between Yoda and the Emperor.

Obviously Jar-Jar's antics are 90% gags: they show him to be a fool, and that doesn't motivate the story because he doesn't stop being a fool.

But there are plenty of other examples: the entire extended music sequence in Jabba's palace might be considered a gag, as it really doesn't add any more to the scene or the story than the old one, but it strives to get a reaction all its own: a gag.
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#10 User is offline   Zatoichi Icon

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 12:04 PM

I wholeheartedly agree. The scene you mention is one where I actually laugh, and do not sit there and watch in gut wrenching terror.
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#11 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 10:00 PM

In that case I must point to Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers as an experiment in gags overtaking humor. All the praftalls of the dwarf Ghimli do nothing to advance the story or reveal anything insightful about the character, it's just making a mockery of him (and the story) for a cheap laugh.

It's not as painful as putting up with Jar Jar but it's still pretty bad.
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#12 User is offline   Giff Icon

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (xenduck @ Jul 16 2005, 12:10 PM)
if ever there was a gusher, im it; but i truly, deeply, despise all of C3PO's gags' on geonossis.



You and me both, pal.

I cringe whenever I see all of that .
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#13 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 12:00 AM

Don't even remind me about 3-PO in Geonosis. That was even worse that the two-headed announcer. And I thought he was unbeatable.
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#14 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (Lord Aquaman @ Aug 15 2005, 10:00 PM)
In that case I must point to Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers as an experiment in gags overtaking humor. All the praftalls of the dwarf Ghimli do nothing to advance the story or reveal anything insightful about the character....It's not as painful as putting up with Jar Jar but it's still pretty bad.


It's *more* painful than putting up with Jar Jar because, while Jar Jar is Lucas's creation to ruin as he likes, Gimli is Tolkien's; he wrote Gimli a certain way but Jackson and his screenwriters decided it would be funny, or something, to turn the dwarf into an incompetent, moronic, comical sidekick. (But then what can we expect when the director of MEET THE FEEBLES inexplicably got his paws on the Lord of the Rings?)
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#15 User is offline   Karig Icon

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE (ernesttomlinson @ Aug 17 2005, 02:23 PM)
It's *more* painful than putting up with Jar Jar because, while Jar Jar is Lucas's creation to ruin as he likes, Gimli is Tolkien's; he wrote Gimli a certain way but Jackson and his screenwriters decided it would be funny, or something, to turn the dwarf into an incompetent, moronic, comical sidekick.  (But then what can we expect when the director of MEET THE FEEBLES inexplicably got his paws on the Lord of the Rings?)

I dunno ... I've seen both Phantom Menace and Jackson's LOTR trilogy, and I didn't mind Gimli so much, even with the dwarf-tossing jokes and the rest -- probably because he really was a good warrior and did pull his weight in battle and wasn't JUST comedy relief. Gimli wasn't just a clown; he actually looked as if he belonged on a battlefield. And even when Gimli was acting foolishly, as during the drinking contest in (I think) Return of the King, he never struck me as out-and-out stupid. And then there were nice moments showing Gimli's bravery -- as when Aragorn is about to enter the Valley of the Dead in the middle of the night, and tries to go alone, and Gimli says to Aragorn, "Face it, laddie -- we're going with you." So I liked Gimli, on balance. (Of course, my seeing Jackson's trilogy before reading Tolkien's trilogy might have something to do with it. laugh.gif )

But Jar Jar -- good God, he was painful. Compare Gimli on the battlefield with Jar Jar on the battlefield. At least Gimli wasn't constantly getting his tongue ensnared in machinery or flailing around being chased by inanimate objects or winning battles utterly by accident via Rube-Goldberg-like coincidences or generally acting like a spazz. Even his VOCABULARY sounds spastic somehow. Say what you will about Jackson's departures from Tolkien, but Gimli never, never, NEVER, in his worst moments, sinks to the level of indignity that Jar Jar manages to hit just by talking.

This post has been edited by Karig: 17 August 2005 - 06:05 PM

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