[georgelucas4greedo]

i wish it were clearly stated in the movies, but come on, stormtroopers arnt clonetroopers...you see, if stormtroopers were clonetroopers then they wouldnt be called stormtroopers, they'd be called clonetroopers. well, i guess that is pretty clearly stated.

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i was being sarcastic...i guess that wasnt stated clearly enough...

[James12345]

He is no longer an individual bad ass, just a clone of his dumb dad.

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How so? Just because we know Fett is a clone why is he not an individual bad ass? Does he have free will and act as an individual? Is Boba not a bad ass?

And please respond with a little more tact please.

[jerfus17]

I just realized that knowing what we do today about cloning and DNA and such, Lucas would have had to alter the story somehow.

I mean we have to assume that genes work the same way in the SW universe that they do in ours.  Knowing this the Republic would have never chosen an induvidual who is prone to having genetic problems to clone.

I don't mean to nitpick or stick up for GL.  It's just that the old explaination doesn't make sense either...

Because as you said it's an idea based on science and technology from the 80's.

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I knew Lucas would have to alter the storyline slightly in order to update our current knowledge of cloning technology, etc, as you said James 12345. And I'm sure they would have come up with a better (updated) reason for why the Old Republic banned cloning than the one I read in the 80's.
But, my point wasn't about cloning technology, or how clones were made by the Old Republic, or faulty gene types or whatever ... it was about the Stormtroopers not being clones and how Lucas changed the original Clone Wars story to try to make them the clones, that's all. But it Just doesn't fit ...

Lots of people who think Lucas had intended the Stormies to be clones all along say the evidence lies in A New Hope, when Luke opens the door to Princess Leia's cell bay on the Death Star. Leia sees Luke in full Stormtrooper regailia and remarks "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" Lots of people say that since all clones are the same height and build, and all Stormtroopers are clones, that Leia knew he wasn't a clone.

Good logic, but it back fires. Think about it for a sec ... in simple logic...

If all clones are the same height, and all Stromtrooopers are clones, then all Stormtroopers are the same height - TRUE.

But throughout the original triligoy I've seen plenty of Stormies that are different heights, and if Princess Leia could spot Luke through his disguise so easily, I doubt he would have made it five steps into the Death Star without some one noticing he was out of place don't you think? The only reason Leia made her remark is because she could tell Luke was just a scrawny kid trying to wear a grown man's uniform.

[B]If all clones have the same voice, and all Stormtroopers are clones, then all Stormies will have the same voice too. - TRUE.

Every Stormtrooper that speaks in the movies has a different toned voice.

Another point (that used to be widely known) is that the majority of the Rebellion's forces are made up of ex-Imperial soldiers. But I've never seen any two Rebel Troops who look alike either.
And why in all three of the movies do we never hear a single person refer, even to the remote possibility, of the Stormtroopers being clones? I would think locating and taking out the Imperial cloning facilities would have been one of the Rebellion's highest priorities. But we never hear a word about those endless legions of cloned Stormtroopers the Empire keeps pumping out, not once.

Anyway, I could go on forever. The point of all this is Lucas didn't come up with the silly "Stormtroopers are clones" non-sense until he started revamping the Clone Wars story before making Ep 2. He's tried to pass it off as such, just like he tries to pass off the Special Editions as the Original Triliogy, but he must be more of an idiot than I thought if he actually thinks anyone is falling for it.

CLONES ...

[georgelucas4greedo]

How so?  Just because we know Fett is a clone why is he not an individual bad ass?  Does he have free will and act as an individual?  Is Boba not a bad ass?

And please respond with a little more tact please.

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How can you have free will if you are 100% loyal? My point is that Boba Fett should not be a clone!
Also, to the genetics question: genes are unstable. Do you know how many times they failed miserably to clone that stupid sheep? Point is: no matter how advanced you are, you cant fuck with nature and win.

[xenduck]

i was being sarcastic...i guess that wasnt stated clearly enough...

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huh? whaa? whoa, im confused, what were you being sarcastic about? are you agreeing that stormies arent clonies, and were never meant to be? so your first post was just a joke...man, i totally missed the punchline.

and a funny thing about the cloned sheep, dolly, is that she was never really cloned. you see, there are (in this instance) two factors to consider, genotype and phenotype. basically, mitochondria in the mother's womb can enter the foetus and change its genetic make-up; since dolly was incubated in a sergant womb, she wasnt a perfect clone. but if you can control the enviroment 100%, then you can make 100% clones. at least i think so, im not a doctor. but its an acknowleded fact that enviroment plays an important role in development. thus boba, jango, and the clones, who cannot possibly share all the same experiences, are individuals.

[georgelucas4greedo]

huh? whaa? whoa, im confused, what were you being sarcastic about? are you agreeing that stormies arent clonies, and were never meant to be? so your first post was just a joke...man, i totally missed the punchline.

and a funny thing about the cloned sheep, dolly, is that she was never really cloned. you see, there are (in this instance) two factors to consider, genotype and phenotype. basically, mitochondria in the mother's womb can enter the foetus and change its genetic make-up; since dolly was incubated in a sergant womb, she wasnt a perfect clone. but if you can control the enviroment 100%, then you can make 100% clones. at least i think so, im not a doctor. but its an acknowleded fact that enviroment plays an important role in development. thus boba, jango, and the clones, who cannot possibly share all the same experiences, are individuals.

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Relax....i guess star wars is too sacred to make fun of....do you go into this much detail to discredit chefelf's nitpicks? and i know environment plays a factor, but when you look exactly like someone else who youre not related to are you gonna tell me that thats not creepy?? doesnt that take away some of your uniqueness?

Rudolph Jaenisch, a leading embryologist at MIT, asserts that it would be nearly impossible to clone a healthy child, that it might take 1,000 failures to get one. There were 276 failures to clone a sheep before Dolly was born. About a quarter of all cloned mammals suffer severe birth defects, such as enlarged or undersized organs. Even those that appear healthy are not. Dolly is aging much more quickly, with premature arthritis not seen in other sheep her age.

This post has been edited by georgelucas4greedo: 14 July 2005 - 02:28 PM

[Revan-47]

hahah, i like how xenduck spelled fetus.

As for stormtroopers being clones.
they are not. in fact han solo was going in the STORMTROOPER ACADEMY until he had to rescue chewbacca and ended up killing somebody...i dont really know the whole story. and i liked your remark about star wars being sacred and all, though out of place.

[Despondent]

Is Boba not a bad ass?

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Not anymore

[xenduck]

o, i see, humor...how quaint. often it is the case with this forum that i cant tell who is joking and who is being serious. so i guess we're in agreement here. just so we're clear, i wasnt disagreeing with you in anyway about cloning in general, just adding my two cents.

and revan-47, im glad you liked that, its veddy veddy british, you know.

[Despondent]

Xenduck, you're pro prequels, aren't you?
I get your point regarding sarcasm, for I was certain you were FOR them. but you Seem bright enough not to have fallen for the PT BS...


For the record, I feel that they Suck. But it's much more dignified to express disdain without being so blatant about it.

So, yeah. For the record: the prequels Suck and you can link me with that viewpoint. Not going to change.

[James12345]

I knew Lucas would have to alter the storyline slightly in order to update our current knowledge of cloning technology, etc, as you said James 12345. 

Every Stormtrooper that speaks in the movies has a different toned voice.

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Yes, true. If the Republic banned clonning for ethical reasons that would have made perfect sense.

And yes I agree Storm Troopers are not clones for the reason you mentioned above.

Thanks

[James12345]

How can you have free will if you are 100% loyal? My point is that Boba Fett should not be a clone!

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OK Boba probably should not have been a clone for reasons other than what you stated.

Was Boba 100% loyal or was he an exact copy of Jango his father?

"Also, to the genetics question: genes are unstable. Do you know how many times they failed miserably to clone that stupid sheep? Point is: no matter how advanced you are, you cant fuck with nature and win."

What?

[Revan-47]

OK Boba probably should not have been a clone for reasons other than what you stated.

Was Boba 100% loyal or was he an exact copy of Jango his father?

"Also, to the genetics question: genes are unstable. Do you know how many times they failed miserably to clone that stupid sheep? Point is: no matter how advanced you are, you cant fuck with nature and win."

What?

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it mentioned in AotC that they left boba unaltered, no growth exceleration, free will, the whole thing.

[jerfus17]

I just wish Lucas and his gang of mental midgets had never even played with the whole Boba Fett thing. Fett was so much more of a "Bad-Ass" before they made him that snotty kid in Ep2 because there was so much mystery about him. NOW there is no mystery at all - Boba Fett is just a clone of his daddy Jango Fett, and wears similar armor to his dad, flys the same ship as his dad, has the exact same profession as his dad, and would NOW even look just like his dad if we ever saw him take the mask off (which will undoubtedly appear in the Extra-Special Editions) - how boring is that??

What was so cool before the prequels is that you never really knew if he was a clone of some ancient Mandalorian Warrior or was just a dude wearing their armor to look scary. Boba Fett's mysteriousness is what made him the sinister, cool, "Bad-Ass" we all know (or knew).

But, we all knew Boba was too hot a commodity for Lucas to leave untouched. He just had to stick him in somehow to get all the fanboys panting and get those Ep2 bratty-baby Boba toys pumping out to the kiddies. Oh well ... there goes Lucas and his Midas touch again.

[xenduck]

what i thought would have been funny is if the clone story had been the same only make jango boba and have niether him, nor the clones take off their helmets.