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The Mustafar Duel What a lucky coincidence...

#46 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 07:30 AM

The problem whit the lava planet it's that have not influence in the fight at all.
They doesn't suffer the heat or get burned.
It could have been done in a cannion planet with a lava lake for the Anakin burning at the end. Maybe it looks cool, but it is another example of a lost opportunity.


Exactly. It was a lost opportunity.

Hostile environment -- OK.
Burning lava world can reflect hell, the netherworld -- that's profound.
Let's have the fight there because it would be a cool environment -- OK, sure.

Not quite the same as trust in our friends being our weakness. Or the hope of goodness in an evil person. Just a dumb, whiny adolescent who falls into the trap for a large lollipop.

This post has been edited by njamilla: 21 July 2005 - 07:30 AM

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#47 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE (njamilla @ Jul 21 2005, 07:30 AM)
Not quite the same as trust in our friends being our weakness. Or the hope of goodness in an evil person. Just a dumb, whiny adolescent who falls into the trap for a large lollipop.


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#48 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 01:21 AM

Wouldn't the lava fumes on this Mustafar place eventually overcome Anakin & Obi-Wan a few minutes after they started dueling?
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I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#49 User is offline   julie123 Icon

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 04:51 AM

QUOTE (Lord Aquaman @ Jul 22 2005, 06:21 AM)
Wouldn't the lava fumes on this Mustafar place eventually overcome Anakin & Obi-Wan a few minutes after they started dueling?



You would have thought so. Wouldn't their skin have also started frying, but they didn't even appear to break out in a sweat. Good job they were in a galaxy far, far away I suppose and not on Planet Earth.
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#50 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 05:11 AM

When I first heard about the lava surfing scene (months before release) I thought it was a horrible joke, like when I heard about Yoda farting.
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#51 User is offline   darthsmash Icon

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 12:07 AM

QUOTE (Lord Aquaman @ Jul 22 2005, 04:21 PM)
Wouldn't the lava fumes on this Mustafar place eventually overcome Anakin & Obi-Wan a few minutes after they started dueling?


Only if sound did not carry in space, "laser bolts" traveled at the speed of light (and not slow enough to see travel from gun to target) and a blade can be constructed from light and made to extend only a few feet from the hilt.
hh
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#52 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 01:19 PM

QUOTE (darthsmash @ Jul 27 2005, 12:07 AM)
Only if sound did not carry in space, "laser bolts" traveled at the speed of light (and not slow enough to see travel from gun to target) and a blade can be constructed from light and made to extend only a few feet from the hilt.

You miss the point and show a lack of understanding of what's acceptable in fantasy and what isn't.

In general, fantasy can get away with breaking the rules so long as it does so to show us something completely outside of our experience. Most of us, I'm guessing, have not participated in a space battle nor fired a blaster. Therefore showing us a battle with sound or a blaster bolt whose motion we can see is acceptable because we simply don't see these things happen in real life. It's something new, unfamiliar. A few hard-core science fiction fans may froth at the mouth over the implausibility but then...hey, they're the sort of guys who moisten their pants at space elevators but don't give a damn about plot, style, or characters.

Also these things have decades of tradition behind them, just as it is convention for ships and wireless messages to travel faster than the speed of light in science fiction. These devices of fantasy and SF are part of the background, something conventional and accepted so that we can get on with the real story.

But perspiring in extreme heat is something familiar to all of us, ne c'est pas? So to have characters labouring mere feet above a lack of red-hot rock and not even break a sweat goes clean against human experience or for a galactic Republic to accept without a murmur a clone army without even knowing who ordered its creation. It's not acceptable any more than it would be acceptable for Han Solo to run through a wall arbitrarily. It draws attention to the fact that Lucas's fights are just unhappy actors dancing around in front of a blue screen and the CGI equivalent of a painted background put in behind them.

Merely saying, "It's fantasy," does not excuse all. Suspension of belief doesn't mean hanging it by the neck until dead.

I'm on the record, by the way, as loathing the idea that little Annie gets hurt by falling into a molten pit. The Force can do a lot but that it can suddenly and magically keep water from boiling is beyond credibility.

This post has been edited by ernesttomlinson: 27 July 2005 - 01:21 PM

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#53 User is offline   jerfus17 Icon

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:03 PM

QUOTE (jariten @ Jul 12 2005, 03:31 AM)
blah blah blah.

what about that enormous bottemless pit built into Cloud City for no reason? and what about that REALLY STUPID platform jutting out into it for no reason? could these guys think of a more contrived location for their climax? GOD, I JUST REALISED THAT THESE FILMS ARE AIMED AT 12 YEAR OLD BOYS. What was I thinking all these years?


Just in case anyone is interested (and no, I'm not a fanboy), but when I was a strapping young 12 year old (and probably was a fanboy), I had a book on Star Wars machinery and technology. One of the featured topics was on Cloud City and I recall it saying that the "bottomless pit" Jariten speaks of wasn't actually bottomless, but was the interior of that long column that hangs below the city.

The column is hollow and contains stabalization platforms (where Darth and Luke had their duel), that help keep Cloud City balanced when heavy storms roll in. Air flow is moved in and out of the column by those vents that Luke got sucked into when he jumped from the platform. I remember it saying something about the air pressure outside the column being lower than inside, and that's why he got drawn into it, or something. wacko.gif

Anyway, I remember it because that scene where Luke gets pulled into the air duct always bothered me, - like "why the hell would that have happened!?" At least they tried to give it a semi-scientific explanation.

As far as Mustafar being a lava planet, the original story for the battle between Anakin and Obi-wan pitted them against each other on the edge of an active volcano (which I believe was suppossed to be on Yavin 4 back in the day). So I guess that's why the idiot (George Lucas) stuck with the lava thing, but why he changed it to freaking MUSTAFAR is anyone's guess - maybe so Anakin and Obi would have some lava droids to hang ten on - someone should re-cut that scene to "Wipe Out".
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#54 User is offline   jerfus17 Icon

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (ernesttomlinson @ Jul 27 2005, 02:19 PM)
But perspiring in extreme heat is something familiar to all of us, ne c'est pas?  So to have characters labouring mere feet above a lack of red-hot rock and not even break a sweat goes clean against human experience or for a galactic Republic to accept without a murmur a clone army without even knowing who ordered its creation.  It's not acceptable any more than it would be acceptable for Han Solo to run through a wall arbitrarily.  It draws attention to the fact that Lucas's fights are just unhappy actors dancing around in front of a blue screen and the CGI equivalent of a painted background put in behind them.

Merely saying, "It's fantasy," does not excuse all.  Suspension of belief doesn't mean hanging it by the neck until dead.




Perfectly said ernesttomlinson thumbsup.gif
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#55 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:23 PM

The idiot droids they ride upon reminds me of the Saturday Night Live Mother's Day Special when they do the bad front screen of all the then cast members moms getting a guided magic carpet aerial tour of NYC by then Mayor David Dinkins while "A Whole New World" from Alladin played.

The battle in ESB between Luke and Vader was done to appear as if they both had to accomindate themselves and use their skills around the city's spaces, whereas the Obi Wan/Vader duel has stuff appearing and popping up at them most convenient times making it appear as if it all existed then and there for ages in anticipation for specific moments in a duel they all knew was going to come one day.

Over the weekend a tourist got lost on an area of a Hawaiian island near a volcano and he had to squeeze moss for moisture to survive upon. He was rescued by chance because of a flying tourist helicopter and says he doubts he would have made it through another night. The area was pretty tame when they showed it on TV, not any exploding Mustafar like action going on, imagine the impact that area would have on a person had GL thought it out a little.

Its all meant to look pretty and it ends up being pretty pathetic.

This post has been edited by Darth Player: 27 July 2005 - 09:24 PM

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#56 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 10:22 PM

And again, there ought to have been at least an eruption or two (in the theatrical version) visable from space.

as far as must-have-fire goes, it WOULD make sense that it would be easy for Annie to get burned (canon) if there's a volcano at every turn.

Tolkien was lame, dude. Mount Doom was just a warm up.
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#57 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 12:33 AM

QUOTE
But perspiring in extreme heat is something familiar to all of us, ne c'est pas? So to have characters labouring mere feet above a lack of red-hot rock and not even break a sweat


The problem with this comment is that you're, uh...wrong. Watch the sequence again if you must. I could also refer to numerous points in the OT where Lucas breaks your rules of what is acceptable in a fantasy film.
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#58 User is offline   julie123 Icon

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (jariten @ Jul 30 2005, 05:33 AM)
I could also refer to numerous points in the OT where Lucas breaks your rules of what is acceptable in a fantasy film.



And they are?
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#59 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 02:07 PM

people don't use the bathroom.

People don't sweat on a planet with TWO SUNS!

you can't travel faster than force lightning.

there's not a preponderance of homosexuality in a mostly male galaxy.

George Lucas planned the whole thing out.
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