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The Mustafar Duel What a lucky coincidence...

#31 User is offline   James12345 Icon

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:54 PM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Jul 11 2005, 11:38 PM)
It was dumb.
Lava planet holds Consortium summit.
Who needs terrorists?


You just got me thinking, maybe it wasn't dumb?

Had the movie been shot in a way that made the lava planet and everything else seem meaningfull or cool as opposed to being over the top and over the top then maybe we wouldn't be complaining about the plot settings...

Had things gone differently we would probably be talking about the lava planet and general greivous with much enthusiasm.
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#32 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 01:47 AM

Hypocracy doesn't bother me. Hypocrisy does, however.

And I've asked before about the duel-near-a-volcano business. It seems to have become canonical that the Obi-Wan / Anakin duel involves a volcano; I "knew" that years ago before I'd even seen much Star Wars. I think it's ludicrous although it also affords the only evidence in the PT that Anakin's more than average in his Force ability - he gets his ass kicked a few times with the lightsabre (although he's pretty good against unarmed children) but, boy, can he break the laws of physics and chemistry and not get turned into a toasted marshmallow!
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#33 User is offline   Grosnob Icon

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 09:04 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ Jul 12 2005, 11:24 PM)
What bothers me is the hypocracy. Do people intentioanlly turn a blind eye (and slip on the rose tinted OT glasses, if you will) to the parts of the OT that are identical to the parts of the PT they are attacking?

Remember Chefelfs oh so insightful WIND critique? REMEMBER THE LANDING PLATFORM ON CLOUD CITY? If you dont complain about why han and the others werent blown off then YOU ARE LAME.

The whole thing is tired, really really tired.


I've asked myself this question before many times, and I pose it again. Can a gusher ever defend the PT without attacking the OT in some way? It would seem not.

How about actually trying to raise your beloved PT up instead of trying to tear the OT down to your level?

This post has been edited by Grosnob: 13 July 2005 - 09:05 AM

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#34 User is offline   Commodore Icon

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE (ernesttomlinson @ Jul 13 2005, 12:47 AM)
Hypocracy doesn't bother me.  Hypocrisy does, however.

And I've asked before about the duel-near-a-volcano business.  It seems to have become canonical that the Obi-Wan / Anakin duel involves a volcano; I "knew" that years ago before I'd even seen much Star Wars.  I think it's ludicrous although it also affords the only evidence in the PT that Anakin's more than average in his Force ability - he gets his ass kicked a few times with the lightsabre (although he's pretty good against unarmed children) but, boy, can he break the laws of physics and chemistry and not get turned into a toasted marshmallow!


I think the origin of the "lava duel/scarring" comes from the ROTJ novel. Apparently Ben's ghost tells Luke how Vader got scarred: falling into a "molten pit".
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#35 User is offline   showmethemoney Icon

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE (jariten @ Jul 13 2005, 01:24 AM)
What bothers me is the hypocracy. Do people intentioanlly turn a blind eye (and slip on the rose tinted OT glasses, if you will) to the parts of the OT that are identical to the parts of the PT they are attacking?

Remember Chefelfs oh so insightful WIND critique? REMEMBER THE LANDING PLATFORM ON CLOUD CITY? If you dont complain about why han and the others werent blown off then YOU ARE LAME.

The whole thing is tired, really really tired.


The point is that there are a lot of errors and mistakes you can niptick in a lot of good movies. But bicouse they are good movies, you forgive the flaws.
The Ot are full of things to critique, but they are forgiveable bicouse the movies don't suck!
There are major factors in the case of this prequels that make dificult not to be tempted to critique every detail.
Lucas have all the advantages and the time to make a great new trilogy and easily surpass the quality of the OT.
It still amaze me the poor quality of this prequels.
i can't believe he miss this opportinity to expand and refresh the SW universe.
Then we have the anger, that's the key. now we hate the guy and the best thing to do is to make fun of his lousy job. what`s wong with that?

This post has been edited by showmethemoney: 13 July 2005 - 08:26 PM

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#36 User is offline   Casual Fan Icon

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 10:43 AM

I've glanced at the book-from-the-movie recently and it seems that the volcano planet was supposed to be some sort of super strong fortress, specially prepared so the Consortium could withstand anything the Republic might throw at it. And in fact they were offed by an emissary from Darth Sideous, so this makes sense.

Not only is this not clear in the movie, but the movie actually has Anakin/ Vader and Obi Wan surfing on lava, plus some ridiculous acting from Christiansen. The due could have taken place inside the fortress structure, for example, with Anakin falling into the lava in the end in the same way Luke falls off the Cloud City platform. Imagine if the Cloud City due took place with Vader and Luke actually standing on clouds.

As others have pointed out, its the overall ridiculousness of the PT that leads toe everything getting criticiized, sometimes unfairly. Nothing wrong with the idea of the volcano planet in itself, or a duel between Anakin/ Vader and Obi Wan, or even Obi Wan walking away from an injured Anakin for the latter to be rescured by the Emperor. In some settings this stuff could work, in other settings not. Its just about everything else about these scenes thats the problem.
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#37 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 07:55 PM

I've been reading the Making of ROTS and the Cinefex issue. Of course, the duel's my thang. Anyway, just like Yoda and Dooku in AOTC, everyone was just trying to figure out how to do the duel without creating something stupidly outlandish that the audience would start laughing. For ROTS, they tried to figure out how to make Grevious fight with 4 arms. They didn't really succeed. And the duel end with abruptly based on a single line that Obi-Wan "has the high ground." Uh... yeah. OK!

Of course the official line is that the duels have to be faster and better than every before. OK, but we a lot of us feel that the lava was required and that's was everyone had to deal with. The place looks like hell, but they don't ever make that allusion. Instead, it's all this "bad feelings" about saving Padme's life and a vague notion of a Sith versus Jedi immortality.

Each of the prequels is like picking up the pieces all over again. From incorporating Boba Fett to Jedi defector to a coughing cyborg, there's no thread where Lucas could say the answer to the questions in the third movie have been there all along. No revelations like Luke's father being Darth Vader, or the fact that becoming a Jedi entails giving up the road to war. It's Anakin a bothered adolescent who makes the wrong choice. It's not really Faust, is it?
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#38 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE
I've asked myself this question before many times, and I pose it again. Can a gusher ever defend the PT without attacking the OT in some way? It would seem not.


I'm not attacking the OT. The point (perhaps the sarcasm was too subtle) was that it total hypocricy (thanks ernesttomlinson!) to attack the PT over flaws that the OT possess also. OT APOLOGISTS, I like to call them.

The OT has flaws, but some people seem to prefer to want to stick their fingers in their ears and “LA LA LA!” them out of existence.

That’s what bothers me.
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#39 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 09:38 PM

Because the OT were good movies overall.
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#40 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 02:10 AM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Jul 12 2005, 08:13 AM)
Good point. For maximum effect, they should have had the duel

on THE SUN!


laugh.gif LOL!!! laugh.gif

no wait!!!

in the suns CORE!!!

i'm suprised prof.Lucas didn't go for that one...

and the fight could have started in the vacuum of space where jedi, i'm sure can hold thier breath and keep their eyes in their sockets and so on...
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#41 User is offline   Xombie Icon

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 04:39 AM

Suns are too exotic for Lucas.

More likely he'd just set it on the planrt of perpetual forest fires.
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#42 User is offline   showmethemoney Icon

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 09:19 PM

The problem whit the lava planet it's that have not influence in the fight at all.
They doesn't suffer the heat or get burned.
It could have been done in a cannion planet with a lava lake for the Anakin burning at the end. Maybe it looks cool, but it is another example of a lost opportunity.
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#43 User is offline   DINVADER Icon

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 12:19 AM

Nothing will make some of you happy.
A lot of physical models made up Mustafar, it WAS NOT all CGI.


The problem whit the lava planet it's that have not influence in the fight at all.
They doesn't suffer the heat or get burned.
It could have been done in a cannion planet with a lava lake for the Anakin burning at the end. Maybe it looks cool, but it is another example of a lost opportunity.

I'm sure if they did it your way there would be plenty of people on forums saying it was a lost oppourtunity that is was not a volcano planet.

This post has been edited by DINVADER: 20 July 2005 - 12:22 AM

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#44 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 08:42 AM

It was a plot device to fulfill a sketchy idea, turned into a rumor,
made canon. Made necessary. Like anything else would've messed up the OT.

I'm still waiting for dung planet, Rainbow planet, drizzle planet and London Fog planet.

George Lucas did not planet.



Mustafar is another way of saying: "must have fire". sleep.gif
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#45 User is offline   arius Icon

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 09:44 PM

The thing that bothers me most is the inhumanity and the lack of compassion that Obi Wan shows even after telling Anakin that he loved him.

He walks away from him leaving him at the edge of a flowing river of magma.

He could have forced pulled him away from that. The combustion scene was not necessary. Just lying on volcanic ground would cause 3rd degree burns.

I read somewhere that George was really impressed with Masala the villain in Ben Hur. The most shocking thing in that movie was that Masala was trampled by the hooves of horses from the chariot race. He was taken for triage an emergency care afterwards and the scene looks a lot like the Vader surgery scene.

The flesh is raw and bloody like he has no skin left just like Anakin looked.

The Ben Hur Chariot race also must have influenced the pod race in TPM.
It must also have influenced the Sebulba cheating idea.

Masala whips Ben Hur and has a chariot with blades on it that starts to destroy Ben Hurs chariot when they get locked together. He also took out a few other opponents before that as well.

George wanted to make that same shocking impression.

It was just over the top.

He really needed test screenings or a writing comittee composed of StarWars experts to cover all the angles so as not to dissapoint.

This post has been edited by arius: 20 July 2005 - 09:46 PM

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