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Was it really THAT BAD??

#46 User is offline   Infernus Icon

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 04:27 PM

The real saving grace for Episode I was Liam Neeson as Qui Gon Jinn. And the duel at the end of the film.
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#47 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 05:24 PM

My horror in seeing this film was that the world was swept up in Prequelmania. I went with a friend who had already seen it and raved about how damned fantastic it was.

When the opening title prattled on about the trade federation, I though "Lucas is a genius to be able to translate a geopolitical drama to a wide audience." I didn't think to say "would be if he could..."

When Liam and Ewan appeared, and the bad guys said, "Oh no Jedi! Super Jedis! Our evil plan is foiled" I thought, "Wow, Jedi, Jedi are Cool!"

I wondered why the bad guys had Asian accents and put it down to Japan Bashing.

When Jar Jar appeared and did the somersault I went "WTF? Ok... kids movie. Yeah, Lucas said it's a kid's movie. Must not forget that!"

When Anakin appeared I thought "Ok... kids movie. Yeah, Lucas said it's a kid's movie. Must not forget that!"

I wondered why Anakin's boss was an Arab. At least he didn't have a thick moustache and a berrie.

When the Chrolidians were explained (it's B.S. so who cares how it is spelled), I felt the wind leave my sails.

When little Greedo appeared and the "You're going to get in trouble one day" line, I though, ummm.... duh..... I guess they made this film to be watchable by morons too.

When they had the Pod Race I thought "What a complete waste of 30 minutes." Is he trying to sell his pod game? I was bored, and the bad guy was like a Looney Tunes character. When the announcer said "I don't care what Galaxy/Universe you are from, that has to hurt!" I winced.

And then the movie got dull.

I gagged at the Mothership-controls-all-the-droids plot device. The Gungans and the Roger-roger droids both sucked, so I didn't care who won that battle. The fact I already knew the outcome made it worse. Anakin's corny space ride and "Yipee" blow-up-the-deathstar^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hdroid mothership was lame.

But it couldn't be. I mean, everyone loved this movie and all the critics, Ebert included, raved about how great a movie it was. No... these were minor flaws because it was a "kids movie." "Wasn't that great!" declared my friend at the end. "Yeah" I agreed "That was good."

Over the next year didn't read _anything_ about this or Star Wars on the net: I had a life at that stage. :-) I nearly bought the DVD, even collected the action figures (even Jar Jar, but not the boy, the boy was worse that the syrupy kid on Battlestar Galactica) but reflected and increasingly came to the conclusion this was a really bad movie. But it didn't occur to me others might think the same. Thought it was just me, and I put it down to having grown up.

When I finally Googled (or whatever you did instead of Google back then) and discovered everyone else thought the movie sucked, I felt a wave of relief wash over me.

Lucas I read somewhere blamed the Internet for the movies subsequent bad name, and 30 something lamers whining because they didn't understand it was a kids movie. Some truth in that: If everyone else tells you something is great you're more likely to think the same way. But that doesn't make a lame movie great.

Yes, it sucked. It sucked badly. Before the premiere another friend said "Lucas could put up 2 hours of black and still make a fortune." I wish he did.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 24 May 2007 - 05:30 PM

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#48 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 12:42 PM

QUOTE (Infernus @ May 24 2007, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The real saving grace for Episode I was Liam Neeson as Qui Gon Jinn. And the duel at the end of the film.


Agree completely.
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#49 User is offline   parcelbombsmurf Icon

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE (Toru-chan @ May 24 2007, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My horror in seeing this film was that the world was swept up in Prequelmania. I went with a friend who had already seen it and raved about how damned fantastic it was.

When the opening title prattled on about the trade federation, I though "Lucas is a genius to be able to translate a geopolitical drama to a wide audience." I didn't think to say "would be if he could..."

When Liam and Ewan appeared, and the bad guys said, "Oh no Jedi! Super Jedis! Our evil plan is foiled" I thought, "Wow, Jedi, Jedi are Cool!"

I wondered why the bad guys had Asian accents and put it down to Japan Bashing.

When Jar Jar appeared and did the somersault I went "WTF? Ok... kids movie. Yeah, Lucas said it's a kid's movie. Must not forget that!"

When Anakin appeared I thought "Ok... kids movie. Yeah, Lucas said it's a kid's movie. Must not forget that!"

I wondered why Anakin's boss was an Arab. At least he didn't have a thick moustache and a berrie.

When the Chrolidians were explained (it's B.S. so who cares how it is spelled), I felt the wind leave my sails.

When little Greedo appeared and the "You're going to get in trouble one day" line, I though, ummm.... duh..... I guess they made this film to be watchable by morons too.

When they had the Pod Race I thought "What a complete waste of 30 minutes." Is he trying to sell his pod game? I was bored, and the bad guy was like a Looney Tunes character. When the announcer said "I don't care what Galaxy/Universe you are from, that has to hurt!" I winced.

And then the movie got dull.

I gagged at the Mothership-controls-all-the-droids plot device. The Gungans and the Roger-roger droids both sucked, so I didn't care who won that battle. The fact I already knew the outcome made it worse. Anakin's corny space ride and "Yipee" blow-up-the-deathstar^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hdroid mothership was lame.

But it couldn't be. I mean, everyone loved this movie and all the critics, Ebert included, raved about how great a movie it was. No... these were minor flaws because it was a "kids movie." "Wasn't that great!" declared my friend at the end. "Yeah" I agreed "That was good."

Over the next year didn't read _anything_ about this or Star Wars on the net: I had a life at that stage. :-) I nearly bought the DVD, even collected the action figures (even Jar Jar, but not the boy, the boy was worse that the syrupy kid on Battlestar Galactica) but reflected and increasingly came to the conclusion this was a really bad movie. But it didn't occur to me others might think the same. Thought it was just me, and I put it down to having grown up.

When I finally Googled (or whatever you did instead of Google back then) and discovered everyone else thought the movie sucked, I felt a wave of relief wash over me.

Lucas I read somewhere blamed the Internet for the movies subsequent bad name, and 30 something lamers whining because they didn't understand it was a kids movie. Some truth in that: If everyone else tells you something is great you're more likely to think the same way. But that doesn't make a lame movie great.

Yes, it sucked. It sucked badly. Before the premiere another friend said "Lucas could put up 2 hours of black and still make a fortune." I wish he did.


Great post! I feel almost exactly the same way as Toru-chan.

The Phantom Menace is like a bad girlfriend. I will support my analogy in the paragraphs to come and explain it in the end.

I actually was one of the people who slept in line the night before to get into the movie. I saw the 8 AM showing in a local cineplex. My excitement was almost overwhelming. When it was over, I really don't think I was satisfied. However, I was so excited about seeing one of my favorite fantasy worlds on the big screen again after years of waiting that I found myself willing to ignore the many many problems with the movie.

Then I saw it 3 more times in the theater. Each time I watched it, I started to dread certain scenes that were approaching or ragged on the way a scene was handled to a friend sitting next to me. And I specifically recall having to mentally ignore certain scenes in order to remain happy (most notably: "I don't care what universe you're from, that's gotta hurt!). After the fourth time, I had become more ... honest ... regarding the quality of the film.

I was still in denial though all the way up until Attack of the Clones came out. I, like a lot of people, blamed Jar Jar Binks for the failure. If Jar Jar Binks, the most glaring problem of the Phantom Menace were omitted, the movie would be good. Sort of like: after I pick this housefly off the top of my cake, it will be good, and I can then happily eat it. In fact, some of you may have heard of the Phantom Edit where fans omitted Jar Jar Binks from the movie to salvage it. People were DESPERATE to save their favorite movies but didn't know how. So we ignored it. We rationalized. We edited out Jar Jar. But in the end, to go back to my analogy, there wasn't a housefly on top of my cake; there were several houseflies ground into the cake's batter. Jar Jar wasn't the failure of Phantom Menace. He was a scapegoat for fans, some last rationalization for the movie's redemption.

I half-heartedly defended the movie from enlightened critics until Attack of the Clones came out. I thought: if Attack of the Clones is excellent, we can look to its predecessor as some kind of necessary evil in the making of the prequels. If not the movie, the SERIES can be saved. I found myself AGAIN rationalizing the movie, trying to make it better in my mind. But I had already learned my lesson from Phantom Menace. I did not go back to see it in the theater. Now 2 of 3 movies were a failure.

As for 3, I had some vague hope that it would be a good movie unto itself. However, it was the same vague hope that I have for a meth user who gets out of rehab. In the end, it failed too. My mental "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" was more heartfelt than Vader's ever could be under Lucas's direction.

Now, years after the triumvurate of cinematic catastrophe, after talking with countless other Star Wars fans with destroyed expectations, I no longer defend the indefensible. I no longer rationalize the irrational. The prequels failed.

So why are the Star Wars prequels like a bad girlfriend? You start out with high expectations, wanting to fall in love with this beautiful creature before you. You want it so bad that you tell yourself you are in love when you're not. You can't really be in love because she's a horrible person. Your more courageous friends tell you what's really going on. You get mad and defend the girl. At some point, you have trouble denying the trouble she's causing you, so you blame her behavior on a scapegoat, maybe one of your friends or one of her family members. At some point, you realize that she's a problem. You hope she can change. She doesn't. You give her one last chance. She fails. And before you know it, years have passed. And YOU finally dump her. At that point, another girl comes along, and you can't help but wonder whether she's just as bad as the last one (Lucas just announced another prequel). You decide you will give her a shot (someone help me!).

(To quickly respond to Lucas's "it's a kid movie" defense, this type of remark has no place in the commentary of a filmmaker. In fact, it is Lucas's OWN RATIONALIZATION for his movie's failure. If you look to an actual kid's movie, the filmmaker never says "it's a kid movie." The thing speaks for itself. I say "Finding Nemo." You say "kid's movie." To finish off this tangent, Finding Nemo was ultimately a better movie than Phantom Menace.)
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#50 User is offline   Infernus Icon

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 02:04 PM

Thank you, dilligent d.
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#51 User is offline   Toru-chan Icon

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 06:49 PM

Good post, P.B.S. And congratulations at the end of your ordeal on having found your way to ChefElf: a temple of the soul where you can reminisce with other fans that have made the same tortuous journey.

I thoroughly recommend you read this book: "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert B. Cialdini. It's by a Clinical Psychologist (not a self help-guru!) and it's insightful into how people think:

* People are loathe to change their minds.
* People even hate it when other people change their minds.
* Changing your own mind is painful, because it requires admitting you were wrong and possibly spent a lot of time and dollars on a fools pursuit
* People like to do what everyone else is doing.
* People like to think what everyone else is thinking.
* People don't like to look stupid.
* If you don't do what everyone else is doing, they will think you are stupid.
* People try to cling to the success of others (this means you force.net)

These explain why it was so hard for Star Wars fans to accept the unacceptable, why some still cling on despite that and why Lucas can't accept he screwed the pooch. (It also explains recent world events beautifully.)

It is a good book by the way. After reading it, you see the human race still has a long way to go. Baaa Baaa.

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 25 May 2007 - 06:51 PM

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#52 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 07:01 PM

Liam Neeson's character hurt the franchise the most!

Liam was a wedge between Ob1 and Anakin. His character was made to die, for dramatic effect, yet at the same time stole valuable screen time from Anakin and OB1 relationship.

The entire film should have been OB1 and Anakin. Padme or whatever didn't need to come into the picture until the second film. Trade disputes could have been a distant background story. Gungans and Naboo could have been even further in the background.

By the time EP1 ended, Anakin shared maybe 5 lines with OB1, real heavy stuff. Qui Gonn dies, funny how is death didn't affect Anakin in ep2 or ep3. He was a nothing throw away good guy.
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Jordan @ May 28 2007, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Liam Neeson's character hurt the franchise the most!

Liam was a wedge between Ob1 and Anakin. His character was made to die, for dramatic effect, yet at the same time stole valuable screen time from Anakin and OB1 relationship.

The entire film should have been OB1 and Anakin. Padme or whatever didn't need to come into the picture until the second film. Trade disputes could have been a distant background story. Gungans and Naboo could have been even further in the background.

By the time EP1 ended, Anakin shared maybe 5 lines with OB1, real heavy stuff. Qui Gonn dies, funny how is death didn't affect Anakin in ep2 or ep3. He was a nothing throw away good guy.


At least Liam didn’t sound as cheesy and wooden as the other actors. His character may have been pointless, but he was the only mature character in the whole thing - which is a great comfort in a world of yipees and bantha poos.
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