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Was it really THAT BAD??

#1 User is offline   darth_newmacer Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 01:54 AM

I was thinking about TPM right now and I came upon several conclusions, maybe that DEFEND the movie...

1. When I first saw the movie (I must be truthful) I had never seen any of the OT. AT ALL.. And you know hat? I loved TPM. I thought it was one of the best movies ever! I was about twelve or thirteen. Jar Jar didn't bug me, nor did Jake Lloyd at all! I also saw AOTC and thought it was okay... Worse than TPM, as I recall! But I had never seen OT. BUT... After Ii played KOTOR for the Xbox, I decided maybe I should check out the OT.. guess what, I hated it! I thought that TPM was better than ANH or ROTJ... That was until, I saw the OT for a fourth, fifth, maybe even sixth time and saw some cons in the PT.. Still... If you forget the OT is TPM really that BAD! Those plot hole you notice, regular people like people I know don't! And they love the movies because the EFFECTS are better! Yes, Lucas actually fooled people into liking the movies by making anything he possibly could into a damn computer! They don't notice the huge holes and love the movies, and suddenly it dawned upon me.. My second conclusion!

2. These two trilogies DO NOT nor were EVER MEANT (in my opinion) to fit together! Think about it! These new movies were solely made to get a younger audience who had never seen any of the OT into liking the PT Not the OT and to get this audience to buy new merchandise with a new trio of faces (Leia, Luke, Han Solo) Padme, Obi-Wan, Anakin anfd get young kids to buy toys and stuff... They would hate the OT naturally because in their minds, they look like shit, as someone I knew put it! The old movies are classics! The new ones are interesting, but NEVER will they ever FIT, so don't compare the two! If they were meant to fit, they would have told the story of Anakin Skywalker and his wife, but they didn't! They told some shit story about politics and left a two hour cram fest of a movie to tell the real story, and by that time the audiences that be wanted a CGI shitload effects causing the movie to be CRAP! Which leads me to conclusion 3..

3. Due to the CGI, these new movies were DOOMED! It is my understanding that Lucas once said (not in quotes exactly) that "in the old days things didn't come out exactly how you wanted them to look due to make-up ect.. but now with computers you can put your exact vision really, on screen.." I heard it somewhere on a commentary or making of... DO YOU SEE!! If they had made these movies Models first, costumes second, sets third, and CGI LAST! I swear the movies would be at least ten percent better, I SWEAR!! Because you wouldn't have Jar Jar, or that stupid Iguana, or that stupid death scene in AOTC, in that death match with those animals although they looked OKAY..

In short.. If Lucas had wanted them all to fit, the Lightsabers battles in PT would be shit like the originals, and there would be less wasting time with Jango and more time with Vader!

So do not compare the OT with the PT or whatever! By themselves, the PT are pretty good...
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#2 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 02:06 AM

Good God, just when I feel the younger generation may have something to offer tripe like this appears.

You really prefer the PT to the OT? What is it you prefer? The shitty acting? The scenes that drag and drag and lead ... nowhere? Intergalatic CSpan? Jar Jar? The fact that Darth Vader says "whopee!!!!", that's right "whopee"

As for the fact that they were never supposed to fit, I wish it were true, dear God I wish it were true. The fact is however is that they were, although you could never tell.

I like your enthusiasm buddy, but's it as misguided as all the enthusiasm at the Nuremburg rallies.
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#3 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 02:47 AM

But I think he has a point. If you don't know that Jake Lloyd would become Darth Vader, then those YIPEES don't bother that much. If you don't know the OT, all the things in TPM that don't fit in the OT wouldn't matter to you.
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#4 User is offline   Harvey Globetrotter Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 03:01 AM

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jul 5 2005, 05:47 PM)
But I think he has a point. If you don't know that Jake Lloyd would become Darth Vader, then those YIPEES don't bother that much. If you don't know the OT, all the things in TPM that don't fit in the OT wouldn't matter to you.


That guy has a point in the same way that skinheads have a point when they say that the Holocaust never happened.
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#5 User is offline   WalkingCarpet Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 03:23 AM

Nevertheless there is a point there.

Unfortunately we, as fans, wanted the two trilogies to fit together. It was a SAGA. It was one complete story that, contrary to what was suggested in the original post, was centred around the Anakin/Vader character. If they were supposed to exist as seperate entities they wouldn't be called Episodes 1-3 and 4-6.
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#6 User is offline   Kelethor Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 11:17 AM

I agree with you on some parts, the lightsaber battles in the OT look like crap, the other day I was watching ROTJ, I saw vader fall to the ground and put his hand on the railing so luke could chop it off.

Either way its bad, I'm glad we have the PT for the visuels.
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#7 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 11:34 AM

The whole PT is a campy mess, just meant to be a giant rake for Lucas to pull in as much cash as he can. There is no story, character development, or anything interesting to look at. Some KGB hit team got to Lucas after Empire Strikes Back and liquified his brain. It started to show in Return of the Jedi, hit a high note with the Ewok telemovies, and became institutionalized with the PT.
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#8 User is offline   Revan-47 Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 12:26 PM

Yah but if you would have watched the OT as a wide eyed kid, there would be no comparison.The good special effects are only skin deep. There is emotion and meaning to the OT. It speaks to all ages. yes i like the PT as well, but the OT will always be what i grew up with.
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#9 User is offline   Giff Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE
1. When I first saw the movie (I must be truthful) I had never seen any of the OT. AT ALL.. And you know hat? I loved TPM.


Thats why you loved it...you didnt know about something that was exponentially better.
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#10 User is offline   darth_newmacer Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE (Giff @ Jul 5 2005, 12:01 PM)
Thats why you loved it...you didnt know about something that was exponentially better.

Thats actually probably right.. Now, I think TPM is the second worse of the movies in all with ROTJ being the worst, even though I used to like ROTJ best of the OT when I fisrt saw it cus of the Emperor!

I would also like to point out that the reason, I think, most people who saw the OT as children and dislike or feel abandoned by Lucas with the PT feel this way because these new characters feel "MADE UP" Yeah, I know it sounds stupid considering everything in these movies is "made up", thats what made them good, but when most people think of SW, they think of Han Solo, Princess Leia, Luke, and or Darth Vader. I was watching a Clone Wars episode and I asked my mom who happened to be passing if she wanted to watch it with me, and she replied (with something like) these people aren't the ones in the movies right, they're made up right? And I thought: No these are the same people in the PT (mostly) but then I realized, that to her only the original cast could be true to her (Maybe Lando, I don't know). I think that Lucas did a poor job making these characters the "NEW" faces of SW. I mean what were there like ten bad guys in these movies!( as opposed to Bad Guy in OT= VADER) And then there are two Anakins, and confusing political babble!

All I know, is that these two trilogies were there two accomplish two different goals, which is why the same group of fans may not enhjoy them the same. These new ones are for people who (theoreticlly) have never seen the OT (although everybody knows someone named Luke is someone named Darth Vader's son, and that some guy named Vader makes a breathy noise!) They were made to be a spectical of the eye (and were probably made to be a good video game biggrin.gif ) While the original were made probably more to be fun and have a cool story about a son and his evil father who he will convert back to good! Thats a pretty good story, but showing that father as a dumb eleven year old slave is HARD!(and was a BAD move!)

So, please be easy on Jar Jar, its not his fault(nor his vision) It's Lucas and his innability to be satisfied with something good( although I find it hard to believe that no one during the creation of TPM said something like, maybe Jake is'nt working, or Lucas you dumbf**k, Jar Jar is an annoying ass! So blame the people that helped Lucas, too!)

Anyway, I'm OUT!
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#11 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 03:18 PM

I actually think TPM was better than AOTC or even ROTS. Again (and I'm beginning to sound like a broken record) mostly because of Liam Neeson and the Darth Maul battle.
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#12 User is offline   LiocModnar Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 07:09 PM

QUOTE (diligent_d @ Jul 5 2005, 03:18 PM)
I actually think TPM was better than AOTC or even ROTS.  Again (and I'm beginning to sound like a broken record) mostly because of Liam Neeson and the Darth Maul battle.


I've got to agree with that. AOTC was just awful in so many ways. I can't even watch it in a sitting. I thought maybe it had middle episode syndrome but I reviewed ESB several times and I ended up liking it better than I had before.

From my perspective, I saw the OT in a disjointed fashion. The first one I saw was ROTJ and had no idea it was connected to anything else. I then saw ANH enough times to become a Han Solo fangirl and never saw ESB until its theatrical re-release. Once you get past the technological bits of the PT I do think the OT is better. It just feels less wankier to me, maybe because George's vision wasn't the making of Fetts into icons. Or insertion of Hayden Christensen into ROTJ.

The PT accomplished 3 things for me. First, it's turned me into a fan of Liam Neeson. Secondly, it changed my view of Palpatine as an idiot. And finally, sadly, it's killed my appreciation of Vader. I want "not excuses"!Vader not "nooooo"!Vader.
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#13 User is offline   Darth Borba Icon

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 10:34 PM

QUOTE (LiocModnar @ Jul 5 2005, 05:09 PM)
I've got to agree with that.  AOTC was just awful in so many ways.  I can't even watch it in a sitting.  I thought maybe it had middle episode syndrome but I reviewed ESB several times and I ended up liking it better than I had before.

From my perspective, I saw the OT in a disjointed fashion.  The first one I saw was ROTJ and had no idea it was connected to anything else.  I then saw ANH enough times to become a Han Solo fangirl and never saw ESB until its theatrical re-release.  Once you get past the technological bits of the PT I do think the OT is better.  It just feels less wankier to me, maybe because George's vision wasn't the making of Fetts into icons.  Or insertion of Hayden Christensen into ROTJ.

The PT accomplished 3 things for me.  First, it's turned me into a fan of Liam Neeson.  Secondly, it changed my view of Palpatine as an idiot.  And finally, sadly, it's killed my appreciation of Vader.  I want "not excuses"!Vader not "nooooo"!Vader.


Yeah, I think ROTS would have sucked regardless, but if Vader said something totally bad ass when he learned Padme died, it would have been way cooler. It was completely out of character.

And why didn't the emperor ever show him how to bring her back again? haha Wasn't that the whole point for going to the dark side?
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#14 User is offline   Darth Borba Icon

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Post icon  Posted 05 July 2005 - 10:37 PM

AND yes, the Phantom Menace was really that bad. I was about 14 when it came out, and I really thought it was going to be good when I walked in, but I hated it.

It's probably one of the worst movies I could imagine.
I mean sure, there are worse movies, but this is STAR WARS we're talking about.

I do agree that the music and lightsaber battle with Darth Maul (even though he's stupid) were pretty good, for being in a stupid little kid movie.
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#15 User is offline   WalkingCarpet Icon

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 04:09 AM

So in conclusion, I guess the answer to the original question is Yes.
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