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Mervyn Peake ...and everything Gormenghast.

#1 User is offline   Dark Comet Icon

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:18 AM

So. Mervyn Peake. Creator of that sprawling expanse of gothic architecture known as Castle Gormenghast. Personally, although I'm new to his works, I've taken quickly to his imaginative and descriptive style and verse. And the character of Steerpike ranks alongside Lupin III, Heathcliff and Phillip Marlowe as one of the finest anti-heroes of all time.

Discuss.
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Posted 29 June 2005 - 05:31 PM

Steerpike is really fucking creepy. In the dramatisation they tried to make give more humanity to make the audience identify with him, but in the books he's just horrible. i do like him a lot better than Twattus Groan, and he's an awesome character, but he's one damn scary guy. Lupin III was likeable, Heathcliff was hilarious, and Marlowe was a gritty PI and therefore awesome, but Steerpike is not someone you'd ever want to run into under any circumstances.

In reply to your post in the other thread:

I also saw the series first, and liked it lots until I read the books, and saw the series was sorta lame. I can't fault their efforts, whoever directed it obviously did so because they truly loved the books, and as I said, the actors really got into their roles and the sets and costume designs were totally spot-on. The plot liberties really did let it down a lot though. And the guy who was Titus as an adult just made me hate the character for all time.

The stuff with Keda was particularly bullshit. But to be fair, I wasn't that into Keda in the books either. I guess her substory is kinda integral, but it didn't interest me all that much... I've read it over once, so now when I re-read the books I just kinda skip all that stuff. Peake really does like to hammer his poignancy into the ground.

Now, to continue with what I said in other thread:

Prunesquallor is the best character, not just because of his eccentricity, but because he's the most human. And throughout the series, he's the only one who ever changes. Everyone else is as rigid and unwavering in their distinctive personalities as the stones themselves, but Prunesquallor... possibly because he is a doctor, and it's instinctual of him to try to help the various people who are suffering... reacts to the situations that occur, and allow them to shape him. I don't wanna spoil stuff for you (although you probably know most of the stuff that happens), but toward the end he becomes almost sombre... all the horrible crap he's lived through in that time just fucks with his head. Pretty much every character except Steerpike, even the Countess, confides in him at some point, and he feels so badly for them and tries so hard to help them all, that he becomes very subdued. And it's the saddest thing. His relationship with Fuchsia is also hard to define... and the way that all ends is really heart-wrenching too.

Titus Alone, the third book, doesn't even take place inside the castle. The BBC series ends at the conclusion to the second book, and Titus just wanders around this weird city and meets weird people and lots of crazy shit happens with him somehow becoming convinced that the Castle doesn't really exist because no one's ever heard of it. It's heavily edited by people who fucked with it after he died, and doesn't really have much of a 'Peake' feel to it after a point. It's okay, but I don't really like reading it.

Incidentally, Peake wrote lots of stuff that wasn't Gormenghast-related. I've only read Letters From A Lost Uncle and some of his poetry, but it's all pretty rockin'. His poetry especially. There's some of it in the Gormenghast series and it's some crazy shit.

I also love his illustrations. He was a professional illustrator before he was a writer (I think he illustrated Alice In Wonderland at some point) and his stuff is awesome.
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Posted 30 June 2005 - 04:21 AM

That's the impression I got from Prune as well. When I first watched it, everyone was so wrapped up in the madness of the castle, and had little to no regard for life outside their rituals and servitude. Prune to me was the voice of sanity. I always found him dependable to speak the truth.

Myers argued that Steerpike's actions could have been averted had Flay helped him escape at the start, rather than lock him up and abandon him in that circular room. I couldn't really agree, I say everything Steerpike wanted to do - maybe not the specifics, but the ultimate aim - was premeditated right from the beginning. And it's true, he does portray him as likable. But that's not the reason the audience supports him.

The truth is, aside from a select few, the characters garnish little to no sympathy. The Countess is an unfeeling ice-bitch wrapped up in her animals (I wanna cat room though!), Barquentine is just an abusive runt, Nannie Slagg is just plain irritating (have a drink everytime she mutters 'Oh my weak heart' - you will be sozzled), and the man himself, Titus Groan, is depicted as foolish little wretch who cares not for the lives of his people and only for gallivanting around after this 'wild thing'.

Secretly, this is why we root for Steerpike. But I'm sure that with the death of Flay (my joint second fav character. Altogether now - 'Kitchen. SCUM!') any sympathy for Steerpike vanishes.
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Posted 30 June 2005 - 07:14 AM

I disagree. I adore all of the characters, except possibly the Carvers because they're all so drab and colourless (intentionally, I guess). The Countess isn't unfeeling (she truly loves her cats and birds), she just doesn't care about people in the slightest. She cares about Gormenghast though, and she's as dependable and unmoving as a rock. No one really likes her, but they respect her enormously, not just for who she is, but because when she has to, she can take charge of any situation. There's some stuff later in book 2 where her character is expanded on lots.

Nanny is a stupid, selfish, weak, over-emotional, self-pitying little creature, and you can't help feeling sorry for her because she works so very hard at keeping herself miserable. Her character is wonderful. Prune seemed to be in a perpetual dilemma of whether to tease her mercilessly for being such a stupid twit, or show sympathy to such a pathetic specimen... you may notice that he does both in equal proportions.

Barquentine is meant to be a hateful, spiteful, filthy, tyrannical bastard, with not one single solitary redeeming characteristic (although some insight into reasons why he ended up that way are released in snippets here and there).

The Earl is a poor, miserable depressive wreck of a man, vastly intelligent and sensitive but utterly incapable of a happy thought, who can only find reasons to live inside his books. Having experienced some really shattering, nerve-wracking, horrendous depression (and I'll bet Peake did too), I relate to him all too well in places... some passages just really rang true. He's like, the spirit of depression. Most characters do tend to dominate a specific aspect or characteristic and not deviate from it much at all (hence the significance of Prune). The scene where he finally goes mad is really fucking scary.

The twins are creepy. The manner of their deaths is te

Flay is awesome.

Irma Prunesquallor is such a screechy unstable thing.

Fuchsia is... well, like I said, I relate to her a lot too.

Bellgrove is rather a nice chap, one of the few characters who doesn't dominate one single characteristic, perhaps it's no coincidence that he ends up quite pally with Prune.

Swelter is horrible, but still an awesome character (you can tell i'm getting bored of typing this now, can't you).

And I love Steerpike, who is also totally awesome. But I don't root for him. I sort of did in the first book for a while, although he really did creep me out with his flawless imitations of comedy or friendliness while he actually felt nothing at all, but I stopped rooting for him near the end of the first book. He really is just too scary and nasty. Normally I adore anti-heroes, but Steerpike is just too cold for me.

Of course Steerpike would have gone on to do all those things anyway, his ambition was far too strong for it not to have. He'd just have found other means of reaching it. Honestly, what a daft argument, that Flay might have averted it.

What I did find interesting is that Steerpike and Titus were of the same mind, in that they had no regard for Gormenghast castle. They were like flip sides of a coin.
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Posted 30 June 2005 - 09:07 AM

It is a bit of a weak argument, isn't it? I think it was just the way Myers saw the character he was portraying. Although based upon the character in the book, he appears to be far more humane in the series.

He's still a nasty bit of work though. I know the twins were batty old bints, but they still didn't deserve the end they got. But really, they were just putty in Steerpikes hands. I never understood the logic behind the whole 'GET UNDER THE CARPET!' thing, but it's a fantastic way to satisfy those feelings of unfailing authority everyone craves for now and again. Still a bit random though.

One of my favourite bits during the series were the scenes with the teachers. Stephen Fry couldn't have done a better job as Bellgrove. The others were good as well, especially Steve Pemberton's character. And Spike Miligan! He sounded just like an extra character from The Goon Show. The man could do no wrong. I just wish there could have been more scenes with Bellgrove and Irma, I do know they get together in the second book, such a weird relationship.

I was fascinated by Swelter. How is it possible to create such a grotesque character that is so awesome? And everyone seems to like Flay. The man seems to have that 'legendary' feel about him.

I remember hearing Steerpike talking about how he was 'faithful to his castle', and if I recall he chided Titus on how he should not shirk his duties when he became Secretary. Plus, he did have his doubts over burning the library - not enough, obviously, but it pained him to destroy things that were so well made, or something. Didn't swallow it though. Reckon that was all bull .
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Posted 30 June 2005 - 09:12 AM

Yeah... maybe you should finish the books before you start discussing character motivations. The BBC series took a lot of liberties. Steerpike didn't care about the castle except in its capacity to further his ambition, and he had no reluctance whatsoever about burning the library (haven't you read this part yet?) although he did save a couple of the more finely made books because he considered them of value (not for their own merit). He never had any reluctance about anything. Personally I'm expecting you to stop liking him so much once his 'relationship' with Fuchsia gets underway in book 2.

Spike was just Spike, as he always is, not much acting was involved. Fry was quite good, but not a great deal like the Bellgrove in the book.

This post has been edited by Rhubarb: 30 June 2005 - 09:20 AM

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 01:52 PM

Just finished the burning. You're probably right, I'll finish reading the books before I delve more deeper into it's mysteries.

Gah. I've got a surprising number of different mediums on the go. As well as Titus Groan, Raymond Chandler's The Big Sleep and some of Lovecraft's work, I've got plenty of material to go through. Couple this with trying to fathom the mysteries of Riven and the Moment of Silence, as well as furthering my plans for The Return of Frank Malone and Knightmare - The New Age, I think I've biten off slightly more than I can chew.

Ah well. Summer hols fast approaching!

BTW, what was the deal with this wild girl? I understand Titus's fascination with here - in the series it ends up almost bordering on incest had it not been for Fuscia and a well timed lightning bolt. I'm interested to see how this will tie in to the actual novel, considering Keda wasn't actually carrying at the time of her nursing. At least, I don't think she was. She doesn't tell him anyway.
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Posted 30 June 2005 - 05:56 PM

The deal with the Wild Girl is more in the second book, when she and Titus are grown. Basically Titus becomes obsessed with her as a symbol of freedom and defiance, everything the castle is not, and I won't go too much into it (Peake really shoves the metaphors in your face) but Keda only becomes pregnant with her after she leaves the castle. Wild Girl is only Titus' foster sister in that her mother once nursed him a while back. The whole thing was really badly done in the series.
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Posted 30 July 2005 - 01:31 PM

My father keeps mentioning this Ghormanghast creature. Bottom line: Should I investigate, or is it like the time he told me Rutger Hauer was a great actor?

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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