[winkdink]

I am beginning to think that my disdain for episodes 1,2,3(I admit I do not have nearly the problems with 3 that I do with 1 & 2) and the Ewoks in ROTJ, can be mostly if not all to what I call the " Binks Factor". Yes I would have had gripes without J.J.B. being introduced (shoved down our throats or up our asses).But the "Binks Factor" is a massive multiplier if you will, not unlike something cubed or to the 12th power. Yes I groaned when I first heard " Yub Yub" from the cute and cuddly Ewoks in ROTJ. But After the Binks Factor... it is at times bordering on nausea. My point is a question as well. Would we all be as hard on George Lucas if Jar Jar Binks was some forgettable character with a forgettable name?Food for thought?

winkdink

[dougte]

I am beginning to think that my disdain for episodes 1,2,3(I admit I do not have nearly the problems with 3 that I do with 1 & 2)  and the Ewoks in ROTJ, can be mostly if not all to what I call the " Binks Factor"...the "Binks Factor" is a massive multiplier if you will, not unlike something cubed or to the 12th power. Yes I groaned when I first heard " Yub Yub" from the cute and cuddly Ewoks in ROTJ. But After the Binks Factor... it is at times bordering on nausea. My point is a question as well. Would we all be as hard on George Lucas if Jar Jar Binks was some forgettable character with a forgettable name?Food for thought?

                                                                              winkdink

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jar Jar Binks was bad, but what really made him bad was the slap-sticky comedy Lucas kept using throughout the first three movies. (That whole scene with C3-PO in Attack of the Clones on the conveyor belt also comes to mind).

What I really don't get is that on one hand Lucas is like, "It's for the kids" with Jar-Jar and the poo jokes...and then he goes into these long, boring monologues about "Seperatists" and "Trade Embargos" and "Constitiutional blah, blah, blah" During Clones I often found myself asking, "What the f*ck are these dudes talking about?" Like some kid is going to actually pay attention to that?

I know that Revenge of the Sith needed to be "dark" but if that's the case why would you make Phantom Menace so much different in tone?

The original movies generally had a lot of "humor," which is a lot different than "comedy"...or should I say "a really bad attempt at comedy." Han Solo's humor worked--he had his little sarcastic comments and subtle jokes:

Leia: "I love you."

Han: "I know."

Now THAT was funny. THAT was cool. But to have a movie where a laugh hinges on Jar Jar Binks stepping in "Poo"?...come on. I remember thinking, "Man, Lucas is really out of touch...he shouldn't have holed himself up at Skywalker ranch for so long..."

And what's up with Steven Spielberg? What kind of friend is he? Apparently he CRIED during Revenge of the Sith? HUH?! If he were a true friend he would have pulled Lucas aside and said, "Dude...some of this stuff, it's not working." How can you let your friend make a complete ass out of himself? Sure, Lucas is laughing all the way to the bank, but he's doing it off of fans who were desperate for "what could have been" instead of "what is."

I've only seen Phantom Menace once because it was so bad, and I swore to myself I wouldn't see Clones, but something inside me kept saying, "Maaaaybe Doug. Maybe he'll redeem himself. Just see it." Well, I was let down with Clones and then I said, "Well, you know you're going to see the last one. You have to see how Vader actually became Vader..." This last one was a lot better than the first two, but it still left me feeling jilted.

Damn you, Lucas!


In the words of Darth Vader: "Noooooooooooooooooo!"

[SithAvenger]

I always thought that TPM was too kiddish for adults and too complicated for kids.

[dougte]

I always thought that TPM was too kiddish for adults and too complicated for kids.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ditto. Good point.

[Mnesymone]

Jar-Jar Binks managed to clutter the foreground and the background - truly extraordinary.
Not only does he ruin long shots of Tatooine by stepping in crap and saying "Icky Goo" when our attention is supposed to be turning to the big vista, he also does stuff like... exist... right in the foreground.
His manner of speech, his lines, the characters responses (or lack thereof) to Jar Jar.. it all adds up to the Binks Factor.
For example - when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are talking to Jar Jar as they walk to they lake to go for a swim, their responses to his lines are extremely 'we are walking along and talking to no one' - Ewan visibly gathers himself as if reminding himself that there is someone there when he says "It's good to see you Jar Jar"... Jar Jar killed TPM in its cradle, and almost had a repeat performance in AOTC if Captain whatshisface hadn't said "There was no danger after all - and I just did a really crude piece of foreshadowing - in fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if explosives secretly built into the landing platform cut the ship to ribbons"

[jariten]

What I really don't get is that on one hand Lucas is like, "It's for the kids" with Jar-Jar and the poo jokes...and then he goes into these long, boring monologues about "Seperatists" and "Trade Embargos" and "Constitiutional blah, blah, blah"

I sometimes hear people come out with stuff like this, but ive NEVER heard anyone actually back it up. So come on, lets have some quotes. I`ll tell you what, I`ll buy you an ice cream if you can show me where the words “Trade Embargo” appear in ANY of the prequel films.

[Paladin]

"It's good to see you Jar Jar"... Jar Jar killed TPM in its cradle, and almost had a repeat performance in AOTC if Captain whatshisface hadn't said "There was no danger after all - and I just did a really crude piece of foreshadowing - in fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if explosives secretly built into the landing platform cut the ship to ribbons"

A line like that would have been more appropriate if he'd have said it AFTER the decoy and everyone else got into a far safer and more secure point. Saying this immidately after arrival is really poor form for any security chief.

[dougte]

I sometimes hear people come out with stuff like this, but ive NEVER heard anyone actually back it up. So come on, lets have some quotes. I`ll tell you what, I`ll buy you an ice cream if you can show me where the words “Trade Embargo” appear in ANY of the prequel films.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you not notice all the boring political exposition in Attack of the Clones? I've only seen the movie once because I thought it wasn't very good, but there was plenty of political jargon that really just gummed up the works. I'm sorry if 'trade embargo' wasn't exactly in Clones (although I think it is), but to deny there wasn't some superfluous politics in there is a bit crazy.

Can someone more familiar with Clones point this stuff out? I guess if there isn't anyone and I'm REALLY bored I can get the screenplay online...but I'm not about to jump at it. You can have my ice-cream cone...

[dougte]

Ok, here's HALF of what I'm talking about. There's reason number 2 of chefelf's nitpicks of Menace and 28 for Clones. When I'm bored I'll try and find some excessive social-studies type dialogue for you.


Reason #2 The Trade Federation
This yawner hits you early on while the classic introductory text is still scrolling up.


Turmoil has engulfed the


Galactic Republic. The taxation


of trade routes to outlying star


systems is in dispute.


Huh? Trade routes? What kinda plot is that? This sounds more like some boring course in American History than the plot for a Science Fiction movie. Isn't this what started the War of 1812? Is Andrew Jackson going to be in this movie? The trade Federation is never fully explained either. If they are indeed a Trade Federation then why do they have an army? And why do they have a seat in the senate? And why do they have a "Viceroy"?



Reason #28
The United States of Naboo
Within thirty seconds there is mention that Amidala was so well loved that when her two terms were up they tried to amend the constitution but instead she went on to serve in the senate. Then it's mentioned that after four trials in the Supreme Court that Nute Gunray is still in charge of the trade federation. Two terms? Constitution? Supreme Court? This is just the United States of America! Where is the creative vision? I would be willing to bet that there are three branches to their government: The Judicial, the Legislative and the Executive. Some people read Tolkien or Heinlein for inspiration but apparently Lucas gets his inspiration from an eighth grade Social Studies book.


Maybe I meant "trade federation" instead of "trade embargo"...but I still think it's in there. And, my main point still stands. Do I at least get a waffel cone yet?

This post has been edited by dougte: 24 June 2005 - 10:47 AM

[SithAvenger]

The prequels are so ful of boring politics that to attract kids to the cinema he needs to insert stupid slapstick humor and idiotic characters like Binks. But that makes the adults stay away from the movie and kids don't even like the slapstick humor of Lucas because it isn't funny. I only see kids play with lightsabers not imitating Jar Jar or anything like that.
Stupid Lucas and his bad decisions. Why can't he put more adventure instead of boring politics?

[Lord Melkor]

Politics are not boring, and are hardly the sole focus of PT. I would have actually liked more of this plot to be seen in the movies.

This post has been edited by Lord Melkor: 24 June 2005 - 02:32 PM

[dougte]

Politics are not boring, and are hardly the sole focus of PT. I would have actually liked more of this plot to be seen in the movies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you: politics are not boring...BUT Lucas's execution of politcs within these movies is (at least in my opinion.)

[Lord Melkor]

The problem is that most of political plot was explained in EU, without this the AOTC plot was a bit confusing.

[SithAvenger]

Yeah. But politics are boring for a lot of people.. especially me.

[jariten]

I`m kind of answering both you, and Chefelf at the same time here, so bear with me.

Huh? Trade routes? What kinda plot is that? This sounds more like some boring course in American History than the plot for a Science Fiction movie. Isn't this what started the War of 1812? Is Andrew Jackson going to be in this movie?

Anyone actually watching the film will quickly realise that the taxation bit is not only a ruse, but it plays no part in the film at all. In fact, I think its only mentioned once in the actual script (by Palpatine). Its just a bit of trouble (in a peaceful galaxy) to get things moving. It in no way bogs the story down.

Within thirty seconds there is mention that Amidala was so well loved that when her two terms were up they tried to amend the constitution but instead she went on to serve in the senate. Then it's mentioned that after four trials in the Supreme Court that Nute Gunray is still in charge of the trade federation. Two terms? Constitution? Supreme Court? This is just the United States of America!

This not only adds some solid grounding to the fantasy, it takes up about 4 seconds of screen time. Nute and Rune were arrested at the end of TPM, and yet are seen at the end of AotC. If this dialogue (included for those of us actually following the story) wasnt in the film, you can bet that Chefelf would have the discrepancy as one of his `reasons to hate`. like I said, how does 4 seconds make a film boring or too political? its like the opening crawl in TPM, it doesnt get in the way.

And, my main point still stands. Do I at least get a waffel cone yet?

after you`ve convinced me!